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MJD explained my point perfectly above. A lot better than me I'm sure.
I know Queen didn't blast out of the gates with their 3 first albums. Obviously. But had their catalog been limited to 1975 - 1979 only. Then their deep cuts from ANATO, ADATR, NOTW & Jazz would have been much bigger. Massive. Because they wouldn't have to split listening time with 10 more albums.
And that might be a big if. Because they did release a lot of albums. Befire and after. So it might not make any sense to compare deep catalog songs by Queen and Nirvana.
But this rather long thread started with Analord listing Led Zeppelin's superior deep tracks to AC/DC's. I noted that one reason is that AC/DC have around 175 songs and Led Zeppelin have 75.
So all my "ifs" was to point out that maybe Analord's comparison wasn't that fair to begin with.
Im sorry about my comment about "Bleach". That didn't come out right. Again, Gui explained it much better.
I think you were correct about Bleach still. The thing with this kind of albums is that they have next to no general public awareness, yet the artist has a very solid fanbase. It creates a situation where most people speaking about it / rating it online will have a very favorable bias to it.
'Lists of lists', understand sites merging together tons of lists from users, benefit to these albums that are pushed a lot by a restricted number of people.
It's very visible when we look at it closely. On besteveralbums, Bleach is listed as the 6th best album from 1989, because it has "a lot" (which are still very few in absolute terms) ratings and appears on "a lot" (same) users' best albums lists.
Yet, once you rank 1989 albums by average ratings, it pops up at a dreadful #109 position. A very different story, illustrating well how its ranking is artificially corrupted by a very commited group of fans, rather than reflecting a real widespread acclaim.
"even Zeppelin". You said it.
You disagree with me, but still you actually backed up my point that as things are comparing least popular tracks by Zeppelin and AC/DC is somewhat unfair.
Now had Zeppelin carried on another decade without Bonham and realeased another 5-6 albums, then comparing them to AC/DC or the Stones or Aerosmith might have been more fair. Granted Zeppelin would still have come out on top. They were the more popular group and have the sales to prove it.
But their massive classic rock radio airplay would have been split between more songs, their massive catalog sales - massive cd sales would have been split between more albums, and their massive listening time on Spotify would have been split between more songs.
But they didn't, they called it quits after Bonham died. So Analord's comparison was a bit unfair.
"Most acts... even Zeppelin". You said it Martin.
You disagree with me and that's allright. But still you actually backed up my point that catalog size matter, that as things are comparing least popular tracks by Zeppelin and AC/DC is somewhat unfair.
Now had Zeppelin carried on another decade without Bonham and released another 5-6 albums, then comparing them to AC/DC or the Stones or Aerosmith might have been more fair. Granted Zeppelin would still have come out on top. They were the more popular group and have the sales to prove it.
But their massive classic rock radio airplay would have been split between more songs, their massive catalog sales - massive CD sales would have been split between more albums, and their massive listening time on Spotify would have been split between more songs.
But they didn't, they called it quits after Bonham died. Therefore Analord's comparison was a bit unfair.
I didn't say it was catalogue size Thomas, I said it was a decline in popularity, due to the length of career, two different things.
Zeppelin were pretty popular from start to finish, just Presence and ITTOD were not as popular or successful as their first 6 albums.
Although saying that, both albums were still quite successful, hitting #1 in the US and UK and both entering in the Top 10 in the US (quite a rare feat pre Soundscan) Presence at #2 and ITTOD at #10 (it entered at #1 on Cashbox). ITTOD was even the Top Selling album of 1979 I think, spending 7 weeks at #1 in the US, the same as LZII and more than any other of their US #1s.
"The reason those AC/DCs albums are such poor streamers, is that for the most part they are just not very popular albums and never have been."
Exactly, that was my only point. Zeppelin's albums are way more popular than AC/DC's, which explains these very low numbers for AC/DC's least streamed songs. People really care about Metallica albums and they really don't care about Aerosmith albums, that's all. AC/DC are kind of in between I guess?
Sorry but ranking albums by average ratings on "besteveralbums" is ridiculous 😆 For example, the #6 album only has 9 votes (with a 80/100 note) and most of the top 100 albums only have a dozen votes, while Bleach has 1250 votes with a 76/100 note...
Again, Bleach is the 11th best album from 1989 according to critics, maybe you don't care about critics, that's fine, I also mentioned RateYourMusic which essentially represent people who goes beyond pop/commercial stuff, their #1 album is OK Computer (85k ratings), and as I said Bleach has 24k and Back In Black 17k.
Even Thomas realized his comment was wrong, so please...
Hi Analord!
Please, prevent me the "pleases", especially when you base your message, as usual, on misquotes 😉
I don't think I've said that the list by average ratings is amazing, have I? These lists are all ridiculous, including the ones you mentioned, that's the point. You say that RateYourMusic is great because "it goes beyond pop/commercial stuff", as if that was a good thing, and even highlight how Bleach has more ratings than BIB. I would have expected that you would realize yourself when saying something like this that all it proves is the bias of these ratings. The simple fact that there are more people willing to rate Bleach than BIB proves a massive pro-Nirvana bias. It seems quite obvious, don't you think?
About ratings/critics' list in general, you seem to quote them as if you were quoting sales figures. You put in bold that "Bleach is 11th from 1989" as if that was an universal truth. Critics aren't facts. It's a small bubble, full of people with a bias towards the classic rock heritage, and with a clear US-centrix view. The same people who say that "rock is dead" for decades can't help but put mostly rock albums in all their lists even for current material. Have you ever check similar lists from other countries to see how your claim holds, or are we supposed to just accept that the US media defines the world?
Oh boy...
I never said RateYourMusic is "great", I just mentioned them. I've no idea what you mean by them having a "massive pro-Nirvana bias", do you mean that Nirvana is considered to be cooler and less commercial than AC/DC?
Thomas said "Bleach is not very good" as if it was an established fact, I said critics love the album, a simple counter-argument, I don't really care about critics myself.
Also, Bleach is 11th with a top 10 including De La Soul, Madonna, New Order, Soul II Soul and the Beastie Boys, so your rant about "classic rock heritage" or something is a little strange...
Also :
"Have you ever check similar lists from other countries to see how your claim holds, or are we supposed to just accept that the US media defines the world?"
This list represents critics from a dozen countries, including Belgium, Poland, Norway, Italy...etc., it's the best website I know when it comes to critical consensus, if you know a better one please tell me...
As of 26/1 2024:
Back in Black - 1.429.184.325
Live River Plate - 18.426.218
Live 1991 - 8.523.380
Live Capitol Center - 605.867
Live Moscow - 407.541
Live (80s) - 55.818
Total - 1.457.203.149
Highway to Hell - 1.427.959.206
Live River Plate - 19.186.898
Live 1991 - 6.148.003
Live Moscow - 2.070.969
Live Paris - 1.816.351
Live (70s) - 20.017
Total - 1.457.201.444
BIB leads HTH with less than 2000 plays on Spotify. HTH has been gaining 100.000+ a day for the past year, so tomorrow HTH is projected to become AC/DC's biggest song on Spotify.
