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Great Analysis! Do you include all the Divas's idol Barbra in your next plans to study? She is the top2 choice in vote, and now the only “miss” one of the Biggest Five Divas in your site.
Hi Luminator,
As soon as I'm back home and have my files again I'll add it!
Hi Vivian!
I fully updated Whitney article with the two new methodologies, for physical singles as well as for streaming, both less favorable than previous ones. She lost only 1% of her overall total which really isn't much! 🙂
Hi Skkywill!
She won't come within' the very next artists as the schedule is already very busy for next 4-6 weeks while Barbra requires a lot of time, hopefully she will come during the summer!
Thank you for updating Whitney! Thankfully her totals didn't drop that much. Great job as always by the way.
Which artists can we expect to be updated next?
Do Avril Lavigne next! She is an easy case to study, only 5 albums. P!nk and Kylie Minogue too.
I don't understand your criteria... You put Mariah's Greatest, which was a platinum record in Brazil, as only 90k , because you said that here in Brazil double albums are certified like in USA, and Whitney's Greatest as 135k. Why not 67,5k?? And why "Just Whitney" has 100k copies, if this album flopped here and everywhere, and Spice Girls Forever, which is also certified Gold here, you put as 40k sold...?
Hi Marcus,
Criterias are not mine, they are from ABPD. Greatest Hits hasn't stop selling, may I remind you Whitney Houston passed away a few years ago ? It remains the leading compilation of her catalog, its DVD got a single shipment of 42,000 units after her death. Mariah's Greatest Hits is replaced for long, selling only 9/10k since 2003. Just Whitney had a single shipment of 12,000 units on its 10th post-June 2003 shipment, proving it was successful there, while Spice Girls Forever never shipped a single copy after its release, which proves the opposite, that the initial shipment was never sold.
Thank you very much, I wait to, as we know, she is one of the top album sellers, but she also sold millions of single, and it's interest to read how her digital and streaming
Hi, MJD
Great article and thanks a lot for update Whitney. I have a question: Is Whitney a good catalog's saller?
I am always impressed that "The Ultimate Collection" always back to UK Charts.
Hi MJD,how many of Whitney and mariah's singles have RIAA certifications?Do you have the actual sales of their compilation albums? Is One Wish certified in the USA? How do you get to know their Spotify views?
thanks a lot and keep up the nice work.
For questions 1) and 3), you can check it yourself at RIAA.com
For question 2), yes... he provides the sales right here
For question 4), Spotify has a counter. Easy to see
hi sir. with regards to whitney's second album whitney, clive employed some very shady promotional tactics. The first was with where do broken hearts go. Skip to the third paragraph----> http://stargayzing.com/the-greatest-love-of-all-on-what-really-killed-whitney-houston-and-the-mainstream-medias-coverup-of-the-stars-sexuality/. Also I sense Clive overshipped the album to stores to get those RIAA certifications and he got away with it because of his clout. Check the Billboard top selling albums of the year in 1987 and 1988 https://books.google.co.za/books?id=JCgEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA49&dq=top+selling+albums+100+billboard+1987&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=top 100 albums pop&f=false and https://www.sporcle.com/games/Alstair/1988-top-100-albums . But whats crazy is it got certified 6x platinum by 1988 and it never reached the top 10 in year end sales. Phil Collins album "No Jacket Required "was in the top 10 for the year-end chart for 2 years ( 1985 and 1986) and check out how the certfications were done https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=phil+collins+no+jacket+required#search_section Whitney is definately the greatest singer of her era but monster hit singles like "I will will always love you" or Unbreak my heart by toni braxton are VERY hard to find so that might explain clive's very aggressive marketing strategies to make her a crossover act. What do you think MJD?
Here is another link for the top selling albums of 1987 https://www.sporcle.com/games/Alstair/1987-top-100-albums but this is the original issue of billboard magazine that had the figures. https://books.google.co.za/books?id=JCgEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=billboard+26+dec+1987&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjh88eQldzWAhWCCsAKHUnODrgQ6AEIJDAA#v=onepage&q=billboard%2026%20dec%201987&f=false If you notice also control by janet was a top 10 album for 2 years in 1986 and 1987 and it never went 6x platinum in those two years which is why I have a problem with the certification for whitney's second album.Here is more proof from an article in the chicago tribune on 3 feb. 1989 http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-02-03/entertainment/8903020512_1_bon-jovi-whitney-houston-anita-baker . I dont hate her at all but I guess it was a marketing strategy by her label or help me understand the RIAA MJD
Hi Lulu!
You are mixing different concepts which bring you to wrong conclusions! The first things which needs to be said is that albums certified regularly over a long period of time (87,88,93,94,95) like Whitney are not overshipped. Overshipped copies are returned so you can't only ship 1 new million to get an extra Plat cert. In the same way, albums are never overshipped by the millions especially 1 year after release. A few albums bombed so hard that initial shipments were too high by a couple of millions (BSB's Black & Blue and Sgt Pepper's Soundtrack instantly come to my mind) but those are rare occurences and certainly do not concern LPs that spent weeks at #1.
The Whitney / Collins comparison is wrong for several reasons:
1) Collins certs were always late, that's how he got quick awards in 89/91 and then still jumped 5 million more in later years although it sold barely 1 million since 1991.
2) Billboard YE charts were not based on sales but on chart performance. Whitney's massive first weeks are erased by this methodology. Also, albums that chart all year long are largely inflated. That's how No Jacket Required made the top 10 of 1986 in spite of never charting higher than #15 and dropping out of the Top 100 that same year by Christmas time. In a Soundscan-like chart, it wouldn't even have been Top 25. U2's Rattle & Hum and Bon Jovi's New Jersey, #1 for 10 weeks during the fourth quarter, aren't even in the Top 100 for the year due to the cheap methodology.
3) The competition is immensely different. Nothing big came out in 85/86. Some albums sold very well over time (Brothers In Arms, True Blue etc), but in the US, no album bar Whitney's debut did even 5 million in one of those years. In the other side, years 87/88 were the most competitive of the last 35 years with The Joshua Tree, Appetite For Destruction, Bad, Hysteria, Dirty Dancing etc.
4) The market was strongly increasing. Album sales rocketed from 522,7 million to 672,2 million in two years from 1986 to 1988. That's a phenomenal 28,6% increase between the era of Jacket and the one of Whitney.
In reality, a Soundscan-like chart would have most likely shown Whitney at #1 for 1987, edging out Slippery When Wet and Whitesnake by a small margin. MJ's Bad (not even Top 100 as per BB ranking) and U2's Joshua Tree would complete the Top 5 close behind too. Dirty Dancing, Licensed to Ill, Anita Baker and Hysteria a bit lower, with all those albums topping 3 million sales during the year.
okay thanks for the insight because i didnt understand why her second album didnt make the top 10 and it was certified 6x platinum in april of 1988. Also Im not American but music clubs like Sony BMG and Colombia House, how many copies were free and how many did you have to pay for because I know the riaa used to count the sales from those clubs. Is it true that some copies, record labels gave them for free to those music clubs?
Hi again Lulu!
No, actually this is a false myth. In fact, labels never gave nor sold copies to music clubs. The main reason why Clubs were for long largely ignored by RIAA certifications or even on label's annual reports is because Clubs used to purchase the license to produce an album rather than the product itself. Albums sold by Columbia House were indeed produced by Columbia House itself. Various albums were even available on some formats like 8-tracks carts only on those Clubs.
They did have several strong, eye-catching promotion like "12 CDs for $1", but it was against a 1-year subscription with the obligation to buy 2 or more CDs per month at $13-16 a piece. Let say $1 + 2 (units)* 12 (months)* 15 (dollars) = $361 for 12 + 2*12 = 36 albums, more than $10 each. At the end of the day, the initial 12 albums ended being as expensive as anywhere else, which is why BMG / Columbia music clubs still made a hell lot of money. It's the standard "buy 2 get 3" trick that makes you feel that you are getting a free copy, while the first 2 are more expensive than they should be, so in reality you are barely being forced a 3rd purchase! They played this game to perfection as for many years Clubs refused to pay royalties to the labels (who thus couldn't pay the artists either) for those subscription bundles while the consumer was paying them with a price spread over following purchases. So rather than labels giving albums away for free, it was more about Clubs stealing the labels 😉
Hey mjd! Some people are really mad at you for excluding "waiting to exhale" but they would be disappointed to learn that toni braxton's single "you're making me high" was a bigger hit than "exhale (shoop shoop)" in America and international markets in terms of sales and airplay. Also TLC, Toni Braxton and Mary J Blige were multi platinum acts. I understand the Bodyguard made her a huge celebrity but Mariah,Celine,Alanis Morissette had bigger hits than shoop shoop. How do you deal with overzealous fans???
Whitney :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhale_(Shoop_Shoop)
Toni: http://www.uk-charts.top-source.info/top-100-1996.shtml
http://www.bobborst.com/popculture/top-100-songs-of-the-year/?year=1996
http://www.aria.com.au/pages/aria-charts-end-of-year-charts-top-50-singles-1996.htm
You will also notice lauryn hill and the fugees sold more with "killing me softly"
I will keep it quiet about "unbreak my heart".
Also to add to the "Waiting to Exhale" debate you are right about Baby face having many hits. Boyz II Men's song "I'll make love to you" spent 14 weeks at no.1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27ll_Make_Love_to_You and their second album was certified 12x platinum us sales alone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/II_(Boyz_II_Men_album) Crazysexycool also sold more going than the soundtrack. None of the people i just mentioned were America's Sweetheart or big celebrities like Whitney. Even if you are a big celebrity, the A&R department at your record label still needs to find the right songs/hit singles. You must have a lot patience because record labels are guilty of inflating sales and when die hard fans see the accurate figures being lower, all hell breaks loose.
Question. Why did you dramatically change Whitney's 2nd album sales in Europe. Your previous predictions were...
Europe : 7.480.000
- UK : 2.450.000
- France : 500.000
- Allemagne : 1.400.000
- Italie : 600.000
- Espagne : 250.000
- Suède : 300.000
- Pays-Bas : 400.000
- Suisse : 140.000
- Autriche : 130.000
- Finlande : 60.000
Now you don't even have her at 6 million in Europe for "Whitney." How is that possible?
