If we all agree with general values of different formats and the respective conversion, then we'll also agree that at the moment of 09/12/2023 Madonna has 248,028,000 EAS while Taylor Swift has 167,889,000 EAS.

So, Madonna has sold more than Taylor Swift so far.

As long as Madonna is still ahead of Taylor Swift, nobody is recommended to propagate a currently utopic scenario of 'Taylor Swift overtaking Madonna'.

Obsessed fans should learn to be familiar with and to respect other non-fans' comments. This has nothing to do with being anti-Taylor or anti-Swifties, it's just based on facts.

As simple as that.

Imagine how you feel, I dont need to imagine, I think it's plain to see how you feel. Irrationally over defensive and angry about a music artist and let's be honest, I'm far from on this thread all the time! Yes I've latched onto a mindset, one that has been determined by the reality of me having experienced both careers, your mindset is clearly just about seeing and proving Taylor as amazing and defending her like some lovestruck fool.

But surely that must be people of a certain demographic because I don't encounter anybody saying that or thinking that.

My main point has always been that Taylor just seems to completely fly under the radar of a lot of people, regardless of her huge popularity. I don't even know why this makes him so angry, bitter and defensive. It's not as if I'm being derogatory about Taylor, I'm just stating my opinion based on what I've encountered over the course of my lifetime.

Have to agree. Most of Taylor's songs flop on charts outside few countries. Anti hero was doing well but it's the social media and influencers/celebrities that are responsible for Taylor being so famous. It has less to do with her music.

I don't think she reached Madonnas fame let alone MJ as her fans claim. But she's definitely the biggest act at the moment by far globally. It's strange that with steaming, you don't need hits, but can get millions of streams and certs.

I don't think most of the population uses streams though.

I am a Madonna fan actually (I don't even like Taylor). Yes, I know that Madonna has outsold Taylor so far.But given the performance of Taylor's catalogue, is it not unreasonable to hypothesize if/when she will overtake Madonna? Using the EAS method, she has already surpassed Whitney and will absolutely overtake Mariah.

This is plainly super weird.

Why would you ever not be allowed to hypothesize such a thing? Conservatively Taylor is closing the gap by 25m yearly. It is far from Utopic.

This is what’s to shocking to me. Do you really think that todays landscape is less representative of global populations? Back in the 80s there was a monoculture where only Anglo artists really were able to succeed globally. This isn’t the case anymore, the musical landscape has never been more competitive.

It had everything to do with her music. Taylor is a prolific songwriter that’s able to connect with millions in an industry where songwriting is becoming more and more disposable.

How dare you discount her success as somply social media exploitation and celebrity interaction

As you said ‘ It really is very tiresome, having to read your biased, unobjective, angry and bitter sounding posts.’ on the TAYLOR thread might I add.

You never think that there is a world outside your demographic in your little corner of the world.

Of course I do, that's why I clearly related it to my age, the differing nature of the music industry nowadays, compared to the 80s and how media outlets and platforms have also changed since the 80s. I thought that I was quite implicit about that, although clearly not to you, Tom!

Having said all that, it still doesn't change my view on things or what I originally said.

Taylor Swift comes in hard selling with her music products, tours, movies and all kind of stuff...and on top of that, she is profiled as a songwriter.
Theirs popularity measuring is abstract, i.e conceptual, but interesting any way.

That's rich.

Do you not see how irrational it is that you're allowed to latch onto a mindset and the rest of us cannot? Surely you must have some idea of how foolish that comes across.

You're clearly no better than the stans you loathe. Welcome to the club Martin.

lol, so is that you admitting you're already in that club.

From what people have said on the matter, it would seem some do agree with my view, it's just Taylor fans that don't. So no, I don't see it as foolish, why would I think it's foolish just because fans of Taylor don't agree with me, when it's clear others do. Or are we/I just foolish because we/I do not prescribe to how you want us to see things.

You wanna know what the problem is?

When you deviate from measurable things and start pouring your feelings into mathematical issues, you start missing the entire point.

In your eyes at what point does Taylor catch Madonna in terms of popularity. When she outsells her by 100m? 200m? 500m?

You consistently perpetuate this notion Madonna is operating in some upper high reach of popularity, it is clearly deliberate to diminish the success of newer artists in favor of older ones generally.

This all just draws upon your own biases you hold, where these newcomers threaten your perception of the music industry, and that makes you extremely uncomfortable.

Taylor will be the biggest US soloist ever, she dominates global markets, she has a following like few have managed to cultivate. She dominates the news daily. Her impact defines streaming policies of some of the largest services. Her hysteria moves legislation. Her tour had the biggest demand of all time and it frankly isn't even close.

And yet with all this being true, you sit here and try and paint me like some radical with nothing to back up my opinions and how I feel. And yet you claim its me who is irrational.

Yawn. Yeah come back to me when she's above MJ and EP and say I told you so, Mr Fanboy.

I'm so happy you nailed it. It's definitely your age. I'm sure someone said the same thing regarding Madonna back in the 80's. There's just no way that someone who experienced Madonna at her prime can give a biased opinion on the topic and i'm glad you know it