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Weighing the streams as audio streams blows her streaming units from 650,000 to 6.9m and the album DLs from 740,000 to 2m, does that really sound logical for a market that just recently hit a size 2 times smaller than France and was smaller than markets like Switzerland and Norway just a few years ago? And I'm not even talking about severall local acts that would be way past 10m with this formula.
The market being "the size of Switzerland and Norway a few years ago" is quite frankly irrelevant. It is the fastest-developping music market in the world and in a couple of years, it has a very good chance of entering the top 3 worldwide. I don't find it illogical at all that the biggest western artist in China can manage to sell more than a million albums in a market with huge potential where well over a billion people live.
At the end of the day, reputation was donwloaded 1.54M times on China's 4 biggest music platforms, 1989 was downloaded 1.5M times and Lover was already downloaded almost 1M times and the numbers can easily be found. You act as if this is a common occurence when there's only 8 studio albums (not EPs or single albums) who managed to reach 1M digital downloads in China.
So yes, it is extremely subjective and odd to only single out China as if it is the only country in the world where there's disparity with the average album price compared to America's prices and I'm yet to see a good explanation to justify it.
A huge market and a maket with huge potential are two different things. The market is currently booming and it will definitely reach levels where the biggest western acts will move units in the millions but we're simply not at that point yet.
Chinese sales should be counted 100%, just like the Russian and Indian ones. This is crazy.
Chinese music market is the most progressive in the world. Who is miss CSPC fooling with that?
republic has already confirmed Lover moved 3M WW units by the end of the first week, so the number is much bigger than 3.1M
Another example of why CSPC is not a reliable method or a valid receipt
But we are. Taylor has done it twice (soon 3 times), along with 6 other full-length studio albums. That's just a fact. I don't understand the reticence to admit it. Again, it's not like it's a common occurence, it's been done 8 times so far. China's market is basically just as big as South Korea's right now (it will surpass it shortly), who had a dozen albums break 1M copies in the last 2-3 years. This is perfectly normal, what "point" are we waiting to reach before we start taking China seriously?
Hi, I love this but one question, I didn't understand at all the formula for china, just like nothing.
1989 = 1.5m = 570K
reputation = 1.54m = 616k
Lover = 974 k = 360k
how was that "transition" and why ? Why if it's 1.5m~975K album units, aren't they actual album units?
Teardrops and Tim McGraw were both issued on 7" vinyl singles this year by her former label at 4,000 limited copies and both sold out on her online store.
With Shake It Off and Blank Space, Taylor Swift remains the only female artist to replace herself at #1 of the US Hot 100.
Didn't Rihanna do this with What's My Name? replacing Only Girl?
MJD how do u see lover doing in the long run. Will she reached 10 million sales once again?
Its actually amazing to see how consistent she is. And its even amazing how people seldomly give her credits for that. Like we hear all the time how consistebt Madonna or Beyonce is. But rarely ever someone speaks about Taylors consistency, when to be honest she is a lot more consistent than those 2 ladies, at least judging by the first 13 years of all of these ladies career.
Hi Samsas!
I see that as soon as the name of Taylor Swift returns, you are back with the same broken record! 😉
Manipulating data won't make your claims valid. Whatever is done you'll claim it "disadvantages" Taylor. We could retrieve data from 100 apps you would claim she is bigger in the 101th. It's insane how creative you are when it comes to cherry-pick numbers to make something look different from what it really is. It's easy and cheap to look at every different possible sources of data and point out again and again the most favorable one to claim it's the norm for Taylor. You speak about Me!, I remind how you said how much bigger it was than I Don't Care, pointing out a weekly sub-ranking from QQ, while completely avoiding the fact that the former has sold 26k while the latter did 1.1 million. But hey, let's only point out what's convenient, right?
As Al said, using the same formula for China than elsewhere would give purely absurd results, and you know it. You say that China has a lot of 'potential', again as Al said, to be a huge market and to be a market with a huge potential is not the same thing. It's quite insane to see you saying that the market from a few years ago is "irrelevant" when we talk 1989 numbers but instead your main point is that in the future China will be a big market. How little sense does that make?
Then, you say it is "odd" to have a China-specific formula. What would be odd is to NOT have it since it is a market 100% different from every other one. There is virtually no physical albums there. There is also no YouTube. Downloads are priced very differently, and streaming platforms are mass social media apps in first place. These facts entirely change the whole dynamic of the market, how you expect to count it as the others is beyond me. You say it's "subjective", can you explain me how the real market size of the country can be "subjective"? That Chinese market was worth the same as Norway recently and still only of the size of Australia a year ago is not subjective, it's a fact. It's also a fact that counting 9m EAS for a market of this size would be dumb. If these numbers where from some other female singer instead of Taylor, you would be the one mocking them and saying how ludicrous they were, how cheap that was, bla, bla.
In your standard cherry-picking you say that only 8 albums did over 1 million to point out how big Taylor is. Why don't you mention that out of the few legal downloads which came out this summer, Lover is only the 6th biggest one in terms of gross? Yes, 5 others did better in 3 months only. Do you think that R1SE album for example, sold for only 12 yuans, should count with full CSPC units? We would then conclude that this album, whic has 2.9 million pure downloads in China in one month, has way more pure sales and equivalent CSPC units than Lover globally, is that your point?
Also, why do you have 0 concern about India? If we follow your route, it's also a market with "huge potential", it's also a country of "over 1 billion people". Yet, if we apply what you suggest, there would be a near 10 to 1 ratio between both markets for similar successes, just because one uses extensively YouTube and the other one has its own apps? Our formula concludes on 3 to 1 ratio instead, which is consistent with their respective value.
I could go on and point a thousand examples of how much of a nonsense your China-related parade is. Don't waste your time cherry-picking again what interest you to insinuate wrong things for the 14135th time. Facts are there. We weight the market in line with its worth, it's as simple as that.
Hi Miss Archer!
Surely you should read my comment to Samsas to avoid fooling yourself with the value of Chinese market. Surely too, you should point out where we have been counting "Russian and Indian" numbers in the millions as you claim. Lastly, each label can drop figures using the formula they want, how would that be a "valid receipt", when you don't even know the formula that has been used?
Hi Mister Silver!
As explained when they were added to the formula, Chinese downloads are included using the Price in Yuan / 50 formula to put them on par with sales elsewhere. 1989 is sold for 19 yuans there, reputation and Lover both for 20 yuans.
Hi Chrysalynne Ling-Ling!
They have been added under the old singles on Discogs so I completely overlooked them, thanks for pointing that out, this will be fixed!
Hi Meat Is Murder!
Like A G6 returned to the top one week in-between the two Rihanna songs!
Hi Michael!
10 million is a truly big number, but I wouldn't rule Lover out of the race just now. So far, it hasn't one truly big single, but I can see it having a Speak Now-like trajectory, amassing sizable numbers through the years with all its singles and deep cuts. I wouldn't also rule out reputation to be honest. There is still near 3 million missing, but the only is only 2 years old, it takes "only" 350k per year during 8 years to see it at 10 million after a decade.
Her consistency is definitely underrated. I actually looked that yesterday, and the 3 female artists who have more 10 million sellers are Madonna, Celine and Mariah, which is very telling. Also, they have respectively 9, 6 and 7, so Taylor is really close from joining them in this aspect. After a 30 years career like them, she may be topped at most by Madonna only!
"After a 30 years career like them, she may be topped at most by Madonna only"
Do u mean she would top them by having more 10+ million albums or do u mean her topping Celine and Mariah total CSP? And I have like a gut feeling that she might top Rihanna in the long run eventhough it doesnt look that way for now. Seems like Rihanna is just too occupied with her new business ventures lately and Taylor is still super focus on her music carerr.
Rihanna gonna hit 100 million with her nest album, bit im very happy that Lover is doing so well... 3 million EAS is less than a month is extraordinary
I was referring to the number of 10+ million sellers. Mariah has 7, then one album at 9m+, but then everything else is at 3 million or less. Celine has 6, a 7th at 7 million, then the rest at 5 million or less. Behind her 9 10+ million albums, Madonna has Erotica at 9m, but it is virtually dead by now.
Taylor is still active / popular. Her first 7 albums can all get there with 20-ish years of sales, as I don't think Lover is any weaker than, say, Bedtime Stories.
One thing that people's perception hasn't adjust in the streaming world is the strength of a catalog. In the past, because of availability limitations, after the promotion of a pop album, it started to sell tiny amounts because it was removed from non-specialized retailers' shelves. This opened the door to strong compilation sales every 10 years or so. Now there is no more greatest hits packages released (see all the main stars from mid-00s to now) so one may believe this catalog strength is dead. It's not true. Instead, it's visible through organic streaming, week after week, month after month. Strong catalog albums from recent years can easily score 1 million daily streams on Spotify alone. Across all platforms, that would be about 1,000 sales per day. While it doesn't sound like much, it's over a million EAS every 3 years, for 1 album only, with audio streams only. 1989 is gaining about 1.5 million per day for example.
In general terms, I do think that we are underrating what the top stars of the last 15 years are doing - if we focus on female singers, this refers to Taylor, Adele, Rihanna, Beyoncé, with Gaga still having a shot to join them. We tend to speak always about the big 5 (Madonna / Celine / Mariah / Whitney / Barbra), acting as if they were forever untouchable. Of course, they are on 150+ million, while the mid-00s generation is on 70-90 million. But the ongoing strength of their respective catalogs coupled to the appeal they still have to sell new records mean that the real gap is much, much smaller. Taylor / Adele / Rihanna will join 100 million quite soon while racing much faster than the original divas. To me, they are all virtually already up to 110-120 million, meaning that if they stop being popular with new releases, they will still get there in 25 years. Thus, it doesn't take them many more strong eras to fill in the gap with their elders. A bit like how Eminem is still under Elton / U2 / Celine in numbers, but adding the ongoing pace of their respective catalogs I consider him to be virtually ahead.
I think features should be counted 70/30 and duets like 50/50, not 100% of sales/streams for both artists.
Many artists benefit from this, especially rappers.
Rihanna also has 20m orphan sales due to her high number of features and 1 more album than Taylor. I think its important to point that out. Album equivalents, Taylor is ahead.
I have two questions. First, why did you count digital downloads in China, as compilations? And second, do you count pre-sales too? And if you don't, why not?
