Madonna is definitely more known yes , it’s a fact and even more known than gaga .. she’s way ahead of both but gaga isn’t ahead of Taylor at all … Taylor at her prime as celebrity was more known, and for healthy amount of time .. while with all factual insight available it’s pretty clear gaga’s hype lasted for 3-4 years .. if as u said she was all that more known her new releases should make more noise or do well but the picture is way different .. and yes gaga is more known in france than Taylor but is it the end point ??? Does being widely known in france where gaga is recently not even selling well any better than Taylor being known more than gaga in many more countries???

I'm from Algeria (North Africa)

and I'm not gonna engage in this argument anymore since I'm busy and have more important things to do than to discuss which millionaire outsold the other

That’s not how streaming works. People aren’t presented with a picture of taylor and a picture of Justin and agonize over who to pick. This entire conversation your entire point was Taylor is irrelevant in Asia. Your exact words were “as not many people in Europe, South America, or parts of Asia, know who Taylor is. She lacks true hits to break these markets.” Categorically untrue, I encourage you to browse Spotifycharts top artist charts it’s a great resource so see Taylors globally popularity in each country.

And none of Justin Bieber's success in Asia negatively affects Taylor Swift's success in Asia, nor does it change the very real prospect of her surpassing Mariah Carey's & Celine Dion's CSPC units, if not even Madonna's.

And that's what started this whole conversation in the first place and is what bothered you to begin with.
In your own words: "What’s definite is that she will never outsell Madonna". Fast forward a few days and MJD himself is saying "She has very decent chances of coming after Madonna too".

It's time for you to accept that your opinion isn't so definitive after all and that Taylor Swift will end up very high on this site's Top Artists list, no matter what. How high, no one can tell for certain.
What is certain however is to definitely not rule her out.

Does it matter? Like you can have your objective opinion Gaga is more well know but Taylor is outstreaming her like 3x over on Spotify, and again the original discussion is not about some analysis of who is more well known, it is simply who will come out on top in CSPC.

So bad bunny got 10 billion, he must also have just fans ! Right?? Ur logic is as incompetent as gaga is in selling her albums nowadays … how come if people know gaga more than no one is bothering to stream her ???? And what are you basing that Taylor gets streamed 9 bn because of just fans ?? Does that mean Taylor got more fans than whole audience of gaga ??? Oh that’s an achievement than .. and i don’t consider having more fans anything bad .. gaga couldn’t maintain her fanbase while Taylor did … so seemingly people related to her music more and still do .. Gaga’s whole discography is doing 5.7-5.5 million while being out streamed by much less big artist like lana del rey .. so it’s not really fans or anything it’s just she has almost declined ..

Justin got ahead of her cuz of his recent collabs and hits and i can assure if Taylor release something more mainstream and less folklore type she will rebound … and justin still has way far to catch up .. and if u ever see his stats his album tracks are doing so badly which makes it seem his whole albums are derived off singles which is not bad but yes it does say audience isn’t getting into your album .. while with Taylor story is different… he’s surely competing with her there not just competing he’s even beating her in this in some places but that’s doesn’t make anything into someone’s dominance being over

How’s if justin on par with her but he’s successful while Taylor is over??? Have u even ever checked Spotify charts or Apple Music ?? If u do you will see beside his recent album all others are far away from anything to successful except maybe purpose .. Taylor just need another mainstream album.. but just to say i don’t think Taylor is going to get ahead of justin .. why because she has moved on far from her pop eras and is releasing more low key sounds that barely ever will give her hits .. but that doesn’t saddens me if anything it’s an achievement she’s competing in such genre with Justin.. with every new album after folklore she’s moving away and away from sounds that will register her hits anymore and that’s what she wants

Gaga is more known in Europe and South America. Few people know Taylor there.

Taylor still can't break these markets. It doesn't matter if Gaga is a flop now, Madonna is a flop too, but everyone knows her.

Gaga lost a lot of fans, but she is still more well known around the general public than Taylor.

Yes taylor has more fans than Gaga, but that has nothing to do with general public which you guys don't seem to understand what general public even is it seems.

Taylor never had a concert in Europe except in the UK, Ireland, Germany and Netherlands. Why? Because she's just not well known in the continent.

istg here in latam except brasil gaga has not been as relevant as taylor rn in YEARS
red tv and all too well (10 min version) did wonders

Again the original conversation is about who will get more CSPC so where is the relevancy in touring stats?

It shows how not many people know Taylor in Europe despite her streams.

In regards to CSPC its Taylor because she has a lot of fans in English countries where most albums and units are sold.

So glad we are in agreement that Taylor will probably eventually move more CSPC than Madonna, lovely speaking to you.

I never said she is irrelevant, I said she didn't break through some Asian countries which is true because she's flopping in South Korea, but she's big in most Asian countries. I never said she isn't.

In Europe and Latin America though, she has issues.