SK isn’t a relevant market on Spotify, either way this entire thread was about Taylors popularity relative to other female artists, and was also more to showcase that she is in fact relevant in Asia. Even bringing Justin into the conversation didn’t bring value to the original discussion. Trying to undercut taylors global popularity beyond 2014 is nonsensical.

Hi Nevermind!

Only a few small points as it's getting late where I am 🙂

1) Taylor hasn't got a crossover hit in years, nothing grants that she will ever be able to get new ones
2) Crossover hits may not be needed in a moment in time, but in the long run they are key to keep a catalog alive
3) Taylor is still barely 32, it would be crazy to assume she can't have hits anymore
4) If I had to bet, I would say she will still get at least one new era with a large hit on it
5) People tend to overstate or understate her success depending on where they stand, as her success differs vastly from a country to another
6) No, not saying she is local
7) Nobody is wrong or delusional for saying she did insane numbers in the US since her beginning. If anything, what she (and Drake) did since her (their) debut, is understated, she is utterly massive from an historical point of view.
8) Her catalog is incredibly strong, and her rerecordings are doing wonders
9) There are still 2 busy years to come
10) The way she is doing 30 millions streams daily right now doesn't grant she will do it forever
11) Had we got streams in the 90s, Madonna too would have got crazy daily streams in some periods
12) Considering her ongoing strength, I do consider Taylor to be virtually ahead of Barbra and Whitney, as in cycling. What it means is that if all female singers stop their career now, she will still organically move ahead at some point
13) She is very close, and may be able to confirm it in the next two years, to pull virtually ahead of Mariah too.
14) Other factors, that are not her own future recordings, may affect where she ultimately lands
15) One of these factors are market sizes. She has the chance / the benefit of being massive in countries that will be more and more important in upcoming years (= in Asia)
16) In a long run race against Celine, nothing is done
17) In that same long run race against Celine, Taylor is already the favorite
18) She has very decent chances of coming after Madonna too
19) It won't mean she would be more widely recognized, but that she sold the most (if that happens obviously)
20) Nobody can blame her for working hard. She is dedicated to chart and sell well? Better for her, blame others for not doing as much as her
21) Madonna herself got there for working harder / longer than many of her peers. Career totals do depend on how much effort was put in by an artist
22) These races 'against' other artists are for fun. Keep in mind all these artists are super mega successful. It's absurd to make fun or call flop someone like this, it would be like calling Bernard Arnault or Jeff Bezos flops just because Elon Musk's networth is now estimated as the highest. How silly would that be?

Ok, time to go to bed!

I fully agree with you MJD, your analysis is very on point, professional and unbiased. keep up the good work and thank you for dedicating your time to this website!

and guys don't take these chart/sales arguments too seriously we're all here to enjoy being data nerds lol 🙂

Love how MJD debunked your bias. Shows Taylor isn't as big in Asia as you think she is neck to neck with Justin now, and if he releases a new album, he is getting ahead of her.

Taylor's dominance in Asia is OVER.

Her fans are listening on Spotify, not the public. She only had like 2 crossover hits, the public does not know who Taylor is unless you are in the US or so.

Gaga is much less streamed, but she is far more recognised than Taylor as she has been a much bigger hit maker than Taylor and her image is far more recognised.

And what proof do you offer? What source claims that Lady Gaga is more recognizable? Your feelings?

And if you think the public isn't listening to Taylor Swift on Spotify, then why are you even browsing this website? Because the entire point of CSPC is to estimate consumption through official music formats and services, of which Spotify is a major part of. If you discredit Spotify and think the public isn't using it, then there's really no point to engage in discussions here quite frankly.

Bottom line is, Spotify is used by millions of people worldwide. And these millions of people are streaming Taylor Swift far more than Lady Gaga. So it seems like Lady Gaga's supposed superior popularity / recognizability isn't translating to objective data.

You claimed he was far bigger turns out he isn’t, so quite clearly from the stats I listed her dominance is nowhere near ‘OVER’. Additionally MJD really compared the stats of changes to the re-recording, when the re-recordings were released after Chinese platforms started reducing mass buying of pure sales, I thought he would know better. If you had brought a single number into the conversation throughout this entire thread besides making outlandish claims I debunk maybe he would have something to comment on.

And where in MJD's post did it say that Taylor Swift herself isn't big in Asia?
Especially when in his other post just below this, under point 15, he admits that she's massive in Asian countries.

There's quite a big gap between saying something like "Justin Bieber is massive in Asia too" and "Taylor's dominance in Asia is OVER", it's time for you to realize that.

I never said Taylor isn't big in Asia, where did I say it?

But Justin is at least on par with her if not bigger, so she is not the dominant artist there anymore. It's simple to understand.

Taylor has millions of fans listening to her on Spotify. Why do you think general public are listening to her too? They might be, but they are in the minority.

Lady Gaga uses to have hits absolutely everywhere, and she was far more popular and known than Taylor was and is. She is not as popular now, but people still know gaga from her hey days where she was massive everywhere.

It's the same with Madonna, Taylor outstreams her by a lot, but Madonna is much more known around the world. Why?

You can go to Brazil or France, and ask random people who Taylor and Gaga is, and you will see the difference in reactions.

too bad none of those people are streaming gaga's music. and a fandom can't generate 9 billion streams a year themselves please, Taylor's success is extremely organic streaming wise. she's not that big in some markets like France and Italy, she's utterly massive in the anglosphere and most of Asia and the Middle East tho.

Where I live most people know gaga for A Star Is Born only, most TF/TFM songs aren't even recognizable to people in my generation (gen z) while Taylor has been relevant ever since 2012 and every release of hers sans evermore has been making traditional media headlines.
we could all judge these people's careers based on our own small community.
the bigger picture is obvious when you check global data. and that is Taylor doesn't have one nor two nor three but up to 7 highly consumed albums. when it comes to Gaga all that she has essentially is TFM. Born This Way does awful numbers considering its initial success, ARTPOP, CTC and Joanne all add up to a pathetic ~0.6m daily streams. ASIB while massive its success is mostly due to the movie itself not Gaga's Star Power, Chromatica has Ariana Grande and Blackpink in it, pretty much the only reason it has done better than Katy Perry's and Demi Lovato's latest releases.

the second you used terms like "------- is OVER" your whole point is worthless cause you're just a stan

But it is over, she's not dominant anymore, she has to fight Justin for streams now.

What's not clicking?
You can't seem to accept justin is as big as her or even bigger than her now in Asia.

It's petty.

BTW I Stan Madonna and Michael Jackson.

i never said he's not as big in Asia, he clearly is.
and two people can be both simultaneously dominant, just because Justin is competing doesn't mean Taylor's dominance is over, both of them are dominating the Asian market in comparison to their peers

Is that Phillipines?
Gagas debut sold as much as Fearless there.

As I said Gaga is not as popular anymore, hence why she doesn't get streamed as much but she is still far more known than Taylor.

And fans can generate how many streams they want. Taylor has a very devoted fanbase. They are obsessed with her and will do anything for her, even buy 8 different copies of the same album.

If taylor got 15B streams in a single year, I wouldn't be surprised.