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I don't think Taylor's popularity is at all exaggerated in China. She slays both streaming and sales like no other western artist can do.
Here's a list based on the views from the top 12 music videos on each artist's page on QQ Music:
Taylor Swift: 98.61M
Justin Bieber: 69.23M (70% of Taylor)
Maroon 5: 62.85M (63% of Taylor)
Lady Gaga: 27.66M (28% of Taylor)
Avril Lavigne: 26.64M (27% of Taylor)
Adele: 24.36M (25% of Taylor)
Ed Sheeran: 19.61M (20% of Taylor)
Eminem: 19.58M (20% of Taylor)
Katy Perry: 18.63M (19% of Taylor)
Rihanna: 18.15M (18% of Taylor)
Carly Rae Jepsen: 15.68M (16% of Taylor)
Ariana: 15.63M (16% of Taylor)
Beyoncé: 6.71M ( 7% of Taylor)
Taylor is #1 by a comfortable margin despite also slaying in the sales department. She has more views from the list of her top videos than Katy Perry, Avril lavigne, Adele and Lady Gaga combined despite all of them being huge in China at a moment or another in their career. If you look solely at Xiami, you might think Maroon 5 are bigger streaming artists than her but it's clear that it's not the case on QQ Music, which is way more important. That is mostly because Taylor is extremely consistent while Maroon 5 isn't. Maroon 5 only has 5 videos on their page with at least 4M views while 12/12 of Taylor's videos on her page have at least 4M views.
Here's a list based on the revenue from the digital downloads of each artist on the 4 largest apps:
Taylor Swift: 57,962,000¥ (2 albums counted)
Eminem: 16,055,000¥ (2 albums counted)
Ariana Grande 14,125,000¥ (3 albums counted)
Imagine Dragons: 11,655,000¥ (2 albums counted)
Maroon 5: 6,087,000¥ (1 album counted)
Ed Sheeran: 4,594,000¥ (1 album counted)
Rihanna: 4,554,000¥ (1 album counted)
Katy Perry: 2,880,000¥ (1 album counted)
Sam Smith: 2,826,000¥ (1 album counted)
Avril Lavigne: 2,294,000¥ (1 album counted)
Adele: 1,043,000¥ (1 album counted)
Again, she's comfortably #1, almost quadrupling the nearest competitor. To me, this is way enough to claim she's far bigger than any other western artist. I don't know what it takes you to admit that though. I recommend taking a step back. Have a great day.
Hi Samsas!
Are you sure it is me ignoring most of the comment of the other? You completely failed to address the fact there is no YouTube in China while claiming streams there should be weighted the same as elsewhere. You completely avoided the price subject since I exposed how absurd your "popularity and price are independent" claim was.
Back at data, you once again cherry-pick an example to try to come up with a lie in Taylor's favor. You say that Xiami isn't reflective of her popularity because songs are left out of albums, and then come up with numbers comparing her top performer 1989 to Maroon 5's flop there Red Pill Blues. Fact is, on Xiami too if we ridiculously limit ourself to these specific albums we end up with 1989 easily ahead. In fact it has "420%" of RPB's streams to follow your way of biasing statistics. That hasn't prevent Maroon 5 to have the lead overall once we put their respective careers together. Picking these albums to claim that "Taylor is indeed much bigger than Maroon 5" is plain absurd. I said myself multiple times that Taylor is the top foreign performer in China and if we add all formats together she indeed lead. Still, the super massive lead you keep on claiming is a fairytale at best. So no, numbers aren't in favor of your fake claims. I'll not even start speaking about local stars.
I never said Taylor was the only foreign artist who got paid-for albums. You are the one putting silly claims on my behalf again and again, that's what we do when we have no valid argument. Let's also not act as if there have been truly successful foreign albums besides Taylor's released with a price. If tomorrow Adele goes for it we may have a good laugh. As for nobody coming close to her in sales, I notice that you are changing gears from "top foreign artist in China" to "top non-Asian artist in China".
Yes, obviously you are the one cherry picking when leaving out an artist who happen to top Taylor Swift on Xiami when explaining she crushes everyone by a mile. You whine that her songs get streams outside of her albums (while I actually listed lists for both, songs and albums), and then you forget to mention that her lead towards Adele or Bieber for example is much thiner than how much larger her discography is. But hey, it's just one more unconvenient fact that you prefer leaving out while trying to convince others of your rubbish statements.
Hi Ash!
Data is used when it exists. It's not these 5 main apps releases streams of every song. It's like Apple Music, that would be nice to have their numbers, but they are simply not available.
Hi Chris!
I'm deleting messages with insults from fanatics. Saying something is "completely inaccurate" is not "stating actual facts", it seems your vision is corrupted behind too much fanatism. Data is there, one only need to look at it.
There is virtually thousands of negative messages that I validate again and again, 99% of the time from fanatics with little to incomplete knowledge, so if yours don't pass you should worry about your own methods when posting before anything else.
Hi Yanick!
Your data barely shows what I have been saying for years: she is the top international performer, but she is still on the same scale as the remaining big ones. That Bieber, who hasn't released an album in 4 years, stands at 70% of her views on QQ says it all. Claiming that Taylor is so much bigger than him is simply wrong. Some fanatics here acts as if Taylor is like 10 times bigger than any other foreign artist in China, and that she even challenges the biggest local stars, that's just not true and yes exaggerated.
BTW, check out Alan Walker's views 😉
I'm sure we all know Justin Bieber is her only competition in China. Cause he used to be the most followed western artist there. Which is understandable cause he has always been pop. While Taylor only has 2 pop albums. So it's pretty impressive of how much she caught up. No one is acting like she's 10x times bigger than the other western acts. Taylor is the 2nd highest grossing albums artist in Chinese Yuans with only 2 albums. Yeah I know her albums are more expensive than the other local artist but Jay Chou, Lay, Li Yuchun all have albums which cost 20Yuan also. Even Lay has an album that cost 27Yuan. She's the only western artist in the top ten of that list. Of course, she's not selling as much as some of the other local artist but it just shows you how big she is compared to the other western artist that have their albums for sale also. But I'm sure she's somewhere in the top 15 with the local artist when looking at individual sales.
I think everyone knows Alan Walker's views are huge. I don't know how to check for his overall streams but I know he's a streaming force in China. But let's check his albums sales. Shall we?? Cause you would think having all those streams would give you so much exposure and it would translate in sales. But his last album Different World only sold 109,443 across QQ, Kugou and Kuwo. It's not available on Netease. So why is that Taylor slays in streams and sales??? 1989 is the oldest album (local+western) using the paid for method on the 3 biggest streaming services and it's still in the top 5 on QQ music Hot sales this week bestseller list on QQ music?? It's literally on a list with albums that came out last year or this year. Why is that??
I’ll answer by quoting what you said so you can’t say I ignored your points (or lack thereof).
“Are you sure it is me ignoring most of the comment of the other?”
Yes, absolutely. Anyone with eyes can most likely confirm.
“You completely failed to address the fact there is no YouTube in China while claiming streams there should be weighted the same as elsewhere. You completely avoided the price subject since I exposed how absurd your “popularity and price are independent” claim was.”
What does this have to do with anything discussed here? We are talking about Taylor’s popularity in China and you’re literally bringing up random arguments made in another discussion on another page to say I ignored your comment 💀. The art of deflection, right? I answered all the points you made in your last comment but you, for a reason, would rather go on and on trying to discredit our character by repeating that we’re biased fanatics instead of sticking to the numbers to discredit the actual arguments.
“You once again cherry-pick an example to try to come up with a lie in Taylor’s favor. You say that Xiami isn’t reflective of her popularity because songs are left out of albums.”
Wait what? Did you even bother reading what I said? I’m not saying Xiami is not representative because some songs are left out of albums. I’m saying Xiami isn’t representative because they only represent a very small % of the streaming market in China and because in Taylor’s case her two latest albums were heavily delayed on the platform, which unreservedly makes her numbers there unrepresentative of her overall popularity. You, however, made Taylor’s numbers unrepresentative even more by simplistically comparing her numbers from reputation and 1989’s album formats (which only represents about half of their actual streams) to artists where the album formats represent more than 80% of their total streams. You accuse me of cherry-picking despite you doing it since the very start of this discussion.
“And then you come up with numbers comparing her top performer 1989 to Maroon 5’s flop there Red Pill Blues”
Again, did you read what I said? I compared their LATEST albums: reputation and Red Pills Blue. I never compared Red Pills Blue with 1989, despite what you claim. Also, I didn’t “come up” with numbers. I objectively looked at the revenue generated on the 4 biggest music apps in China to compare them. Let me post it again, perhaps this time it will sink in.
QQ Music:
15,438,000 yuans for Reputation
2,862,000 yuans for Red Pill Blues
NetEase:
12,698,000 yuans for Reputation
2,148,000 yuans for Red Pill Blues
Kugou Music:
1,826,000 yuans for Reputation
1,038,000 yuans for Red Pill Blues
Kuwo Music:
263,400 yuans for Reputation
38,400 yuans for Red Pill Blues
“Fact is, on Xiami too if we ridiculously limit ourself to these specific albums we end up with 1989 easily ahead. In fact it has “420%” of RPB’s streams to follow your way of biasing statistics. That hasn’t prevent Maroon 5 to have the lead overall once we put their respective careers together. Picking these albums to claim that “Taylor is indeed much bigger than Maroon 5” is plain absurd.”
Then maybe don’t limit yourself to Xiami? I know, shocking right?
“I never said Taylor was the only foreign artist who got paid-for albums. You are the one putting silly claims on my behalf again and again. That’s what we do when we have no valid argument.”
Where exactly did I suggest that you said Taylor is the ONLY foreign act to use the paid-for strategy? You’re blatantly putting words in my mouth to backtrack and claim that I don’t have arguments because of it… How ironic. I said she’s far from being the only one to use it. What you said (and I quote!) is that “very few foreign acts used the paid-for strategy” to justify your point that we exaggerate Taylor’s popularity. I then proved to you that this is simply untrue. Pretty much every single artist mentioned here used that strategy at one point or another, but none ever came remotely close to Taylor’s level of success using it. Using that strategy, Taylor grossed around 58M yuans from 2 albums. Out of the western artists, the second biggest digital seller – also with 2 albums – is Eminem with 16M yuans, which is almost 4 times less than Taylor. The third one is Ariana, who grossed 14M yuans from 3 albums. This means Taylor’s latest album alone outgrossed Eminem’s 2 latest albums + Ariana Grande’s 3 latest albums… combined. But hey, Maroon 5 has 10 million more streams on Xiami!!!!
“As for nobody coming close to her in sales, I notice that you are changing gears from “top foreign artist in China” to “top non-Asian artist in China”.”
You think you made a point here, but you truly didn’t. I say western artists most of the time simply because that’s what interests me the most. That being said, she has the best average gross per album out of any artist, foreign or local. Sorry. You won’t say it, but Taylor is definitely in a league of her own when it comes to digital sales among international artists.
“You are the one cherry picking when leaving out an artist who happen to top Taylor Swift on Xiami when explaining she crushes everyone by a mile.”
Except I didn’t leave out Maroon 5. Despite you who precariously want to keep this conversation about the tiny application that is Xiami where M5 managed to outstream Taylor thanks to her delaying her 2 pop albums, I absolutely do not mind talking about their overall popularity on every relevant music app in China. Taylor has more followers than them on remotely every single application in China. Taylor has better digital sales on every single application in China. On QQ Music, Maroon 5 barely has 60% of Taylor’s views on their main page and that % is going down day by day considering Taylor is still doing extremely well to this day while Maroon 5 lost a lot of relevancy since V.
Bottom line is, the claim that “Taylor isn’t that much bigger than remaining international stars in China” is unwaveringly incorrect and preposterous and you got called out for it. But you won’t admit it because how dare you concede a point to “fanatics”!
Hi Xavier!
All your points say that Taylor is very popular in China - nobody is contradicting that, really. Read back comments from the past and you will see that many of her fans (well, if not the same one with different accounts) claimed that she is 10x times bigger than anyone else.
Then, a few elements to point out:
- we can't look at 1 format when it's more convenient. For example, the fanatic here claims Xiami aren't reflective of her true popularity, that QQ's views are. That's heavily flawed. Her views are higher because her last albums weren't available for audio streaming. It would be like saying globally she is 50% bigger than Adele because of their respective YouTube views, we know how wrong that is. She has higher sales and higher views "thanks" to lower audio streaming, when we get data about this latter format we then can't rule it out saying she is bigger in sales/views so she must be stronger in streams. We always need to look at everything together.
- the Alan Walker point is very weak. Saying it should translate in sales doesn't make sense really. DJs are massively popular yet they don't sell, it's true in China just like anywhere else. It would be like saying that Demi Lovato is more popular than David Guetta or Calvin Harris because she has higher pure album sales, that's very wrong. Alan Walker is at near 4 billion streams in China, if we really convert by 1500 as Taylor's fanatic wants that would be 2.67 million EAS, way more than paid-for sales of Taylor's albums. Of course she is no doubt ahead all-formats, but that's still a huge number that can't be overlooked and can definitely not be diminished because of an irrelevant format for an artist of his type.
- Ed Sheeran remains a 1-hit maker so far in China, He's not a household name.
- I Don't Care is Sheeran's song before Bieber's one, and comparing 1 song is hardly representative of two artist's cumulative popularity.
- we can't say that Bieber is her only competition when Maroon 5 stats are so high in comparison to her. Again, we can't confuse star power and cumulative organic popularity of their respective catalogs.
Hi Samsas!
Repeating silly lies won't make them true. You resumed everything in one sentence: "What does this have to do with anything discussed here? We are talking about Taylor’s popularity in China". Wrong. Your supposed points were about how Chinese downloads and streams should be weighted towards CSPC. I pointed out how you can't care less about it, how you barely want to inflate Taylor's total and this sentence seals it. You go to it again speaking of "what interests me the most". For months I have been saying to you that a consistent model should take all formats, for all artists into account, and you keep going back to "let make Taylor's-favored formats heavier". Pointless.
After ignoring non-Asian acts, you know switch your claims to one format only stating that "You won’t say it, but Taylor is definitely in a league of her own when it comes to digital sales among international artists.". Who's speaking about 1-format only? Who's drawing conclusions from biased, extremely incomplete data? What's your next point, Jack White is hugely popular since he is on a league of his own in cassette sales? Who said exactly that there is "western" artists crushing her in paid-for sales? Yes, nobody. You answer to nothing with a statistic that is deeply incomplete, great. Pointless argument one more time.
Then, what's the point in showing the same flawed data again, when I exposed how much flawed it is? That Reputation vs Red Pill Blues is just dumb, why don't you compare a weak album from her to V with valid all-around statistics? Cherry picking convenient releases AND convenient formats to fit to your point doesn't prove that point, it only exposes your bias. You continue by falling into harsher nonsense by speaking about followers. How can you claim over the same paragraph that actual audio streams from Xiami don't matter but followers do? I take it that Katy Perry is more successful than Taylor Swift globally because she has more Twitter followers right? Why do you want to apply absurd logics like that to China? Star power and value of a catalog are two very, very different things, ask Demi Lovato.
Also, keep lying to yourself about Xiami being irrelevant because it has less users than other platforms. Using video views from QQ to say she performs better just shows your ignorance / bad faith, you choose, since they cannibalize each other rather than supporting themselves. As I said elsewhere, is Taylor Swift more popular than Adele globally because she has way more YouTube views? No, she barely has video views inflated by her frequent unavailability in audio streams. Thus, claiming we should use these video views to establish her audio stream results is just so, so wrong. But hey, you aren't subjective, no?
The only thing called out for here is your blatant fanatism indeed. At least, even if you do it unconsciously, you keep dropping sentences again and again to evidence it.
Hi MJD!!
I'll admit you did make some points. And you're right about my Alan Walker point being very weak. But can you explain to me how can a small music platform like Xiami which only has 14.4M monthly active users get so many streams compared to QQ music which has 211M monthly active users?? Or maybe I'm not understanding something?? Cause I don't know how to read Chinese numbers. Even when I translate it, it confuses me.
Also another question, around how many streams does Taylor have overall in China?? Does Alan walker have the most streams for a western artist??
Hi,MJD!
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/388717011569655340/
Taylor received a plaque for 1.5 million units in Indonesia before her Red tour in Jakarta. What do you think of it?
