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Hi Manuel!
No figure is explicitely mentioned for Eh, Eh because I have no Soundscan figure for it, so not enough data to commit in a figure that will then be used as a receipt by other people. To be fully transparent, it comes with 630k sales in my Excel spreadsheet which includes 125k from France + Oz + estimates for remaining markets as per its streaming (both Spotify and YouTube) figures to establish its popularity.
Yes, the figure of The Fame includes The Fame Monster double disc. The one which appears under the section Other releases is the stand-alone EP that came out in North America, that one isn't accounted for into the 15,8 million figure.
Look, I know you dedicate a lot of time to this and you really love charts. I appreciate it. But you’re not the only one. Many others follow charts as well for years and years. You should really try to not treat everybody who don’t agree with you as “blind fans” or as if they knew nothing about charts.
There will be people in here posting things just like “my diva sold more”, that’s for sure... but others just love charts as much as you do and might have different estimations and think your numbers are sometimes not accurate (or that you’re biased towards some artists).
At the end of the day, this is not official, it’s a really good work, congratulations, but you don’t have real sales for like... 80% of markets, just your personal estimations based on chart runs and certifications. Some people will agree, others won’t. 😉
wow, her career decline is truly massive. From 33m to 2.2m. In just 8 years. Unbelievable!! That has to be the worst decline Ive seen for a major pop artist in the past 20 years.
I expected better from Joanne but the era was a total non factor outside North America tho, the way she completely lost her global power is amusing. I dont know why people call it a comeback from Artpop when it did worse in every aspect except Spotify. Album sales down by almost 1 million, single sales down by several millions, YouTube views also down and total CSPC numbers down by 40%. She never recovered even not even with extensive promotion at the super bowl and every award show.
Btw, is she the only major pop artist who never got to outsell a previous albums? Born this way sold less than The fame, Artpop sold less than Born this way, Cheek to cheek sold less than Artpop, Joanne sold less than Jazz album Cheek to cheek. Now i see why she gets called the "Cyndi Lauper" of her generation.
Thanks for all the great job MJD, and dont listen to delusional fans 😉
Joanne: 2,2m
Witness: 1,9m
One is supposed to be a comeback and the other is supposed to be a bomb. I guess the standards are different.
Do you know the main difference between me and 99% of people following charts? It is that most people follow one specific artist or at best 2/3, while I follow the entire market. On that situation, you can act 100% objective, you won't see it all. That's why you haven't notice Mexico was including streams for a couple of years, or why you didn't realize promo singles sales are then excluded from Soundscan when the user buys the album, that's also why you call "pre-streaming era" albums from 2008-2012 for Scandinavian sales while by the latter date streaming was already massive there. Many people believe we all access to the same data - which is wrong, but let's assume it's correct - but the big deal isn't about the data you can access to, the big deal is about understanding precisely this data. Most people online can't interpret correctly the huge majority of sales data available. I can't ask at all readers to be experts, to notice every little detail that changes the conclusion, that's why I always take the time to answer to people, to provide explanations, to be transparent about all processes. What I can expect from readers though is to avoid the "you deflated on purpose my fave" speech you were having. I do not treat everybody as "blind fans", you acted as one, here is the difference. As you saw, I can give you fully valid reasons for everything and explain what seems wrong to you, so no need to get into this stans-like comments and think twice before accusing someone of something.
BTW, there is near 0% of estimates on my figures. They are all the results of official data and automatic processes based on official data, that's why all speeches about inflations / deflations based on tastes is fanciful. Figures may not be official, they do obviously include minor errors here and there, but at least they will include the same ones for all artists, in other words they are fully consistent. The simple fact that some LG fan calls me a Madonna fan to explain why I'm "hating" Gaga shows how laughable these arguments are.
Also, I did the same question in Adele's and Taylor's Popularity Analysis. Can you answer me in their respective CSPC articles?
Witness will easily outsell Joanne in the near future because it has way better streaming...plus the Witness Tour is still going strong therefore the album/singles sales are getting a boost too!
the gaga fans arguing on ukmix are so funny. they really think they, a bunch of delusional fans who barely know how to navigate kworb.net, are better at estimating than someone who has studied every marked for more than one decade now. the reality is, this is as close as it gets until her label or the ifpi publish raw data. her fans dont like the fact her numbers are lower than the inflated numbers theyve been running with for years. gotta love wishful thinking and delusion. and gotta love how they think the estimates they pull out their ass are better than yours. imagine thinking joanne sold 60k in mexico when it barely sold 25k in france or 45k in germany. and this person claims to know about charts? lol what a mess.
Mr. Leonix. Actually there are 1 major pop star that has gone even worse than her. Its actually Alanis Morissette. Her debut album sold 33 million copies worldwide and she was huge back then. The debut of 33 million albums sold worldwide was bigger than any other major pop star debut. Her next album only sold 7-8 million copies, her third album 2-3 million and her subsequent album either barely reach 1 million or less than a million. Bare in mind that her peak was in 1996 when the market was so much bigger than during Gaga's time. So her fall from grace was much2 more painful than Gaga.
don't listen to obsessed haters as well. . .
thanks MJD for wonderful job.
Good morning, great article as always. I really believe in your estimations =)
I just have a question: the numbers we know about katy and gaga looks very very close, very similar.
What makes Firework at 12,8m and Poker Face a 20,5m when the numbers we did kknow before looks so close?
One more time, is just a question, I honestly believe in your estimations, I'm just trying to understand this huge gap between gaga and katy best selling downloads. Thank you
Hi JRVV!
Please find below her estimated / calculated ringtones singles in the US:
1 Poker Face 1425k
2 Just Dance 1375k
3 Bad Romance 900k
4 Telephone 600k
5 Paparazzi 500k
Then sales go down very quickly since later eras arrived when RTs were dead. There is LoveGame and Alejandro which did 550k combined and the rest is at most at 150k (Born This Way's figure).
Hi Anastasia!
Most online boards focus on downloads from a few countries, basically the US, the UK, Canada, Australia, France, Germany. While this is a good start, this leaves out two massive factors which are Asian sales and ringtones. To make it simple: Firework is massive in all the 'visible' units posted on online boards, weak in these two remaining segments. Poker Face has been massive in all of them.
Let's start with ringtones, here is their annual sales in the US:
2004 60 m
2005 170 m
2006 315 m
2007 362 m
2008 338,4 m
2009 305,8 m
2010 220,5 m
2011 115,4 m
2012 69,3 m
2013 39,4 m
2014 26,6 m
2015 21,9 m
2016 16,1 m
2017 11 m
PF peaked in early 2009 when there was over 25m RTs sold per month. Firework in late 2010 / early 2011 when weekly sales were closer to 10m. Although their releases seem close, that market was cut by more than 2 in-between. What's true in the US is also true in remaining relevant markets. They performed about the same on that format (PF was #13 of 2009, Firework #11 of 2011), but that leads to very different sales.
Then Firework wasn't a big hit in Asia. I have set an estimate of 300k for it in Japan + SK, this competes with 3,95m for PF.
One last element is that Firework wasn't *that* massive everywhere. While in the US/UK/Oz/CA both singles sold virtually the same (9,6m vs 9,7m), in Germany for example PF tops it by more than 3 to 1!
So that's it? You got no valid argument anymore so you come with insults to someone who argued (nicely) something you don't like? Well done. There is no room for this kind of childish behaviour. I hate moving messages to trash since to me everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if this is your way to go I'll start doing it for your messages.
Hello, Greg. Going by your logic of comparing an album to "4" to know if it flopped:
-ANTi by Rihanna, the most successful female release of 2016, flopped, since it did 3M less than "4"
-Beyoncé's own albums released in 2013 and 2016, Sefl-Titled and Lemonade, flopped
-Bangerz by Miley Cyrus and Pure Heroin by Lorde flopped
-24k Magic by Bruno flopped
I hope you realize how absurd it is to claim "Circus" flopped because it did less CSPC than "4". Both albums ARE successful (4 was saved by its fantastic recurrent streams and sales), but what makes "Circus" the bigger success is that it was a 55% increase from Britney's previous album, while "4" is a 53% decrease. Context matters a lot.
Circus is ok. Not a flop or sucess. Just it did weaker than other releases of the same period. But for example did better than Rated R when Rihanna was on her peak.
CSPC
Prism - 10,571,000
Witness - 1,911,000
Decline: 82%
Artpop - 3,953,000
Joanne -2,253,000
Decline: 43%
Sales
Prism - 4,230,000
Witness - 600,000
Decline: 86%
Artpop - 2,110,000
Joanne -1,330,000
Decline: 47%
Do you really need more explanation as of why Witness is considered such a big flop for Katy?
MJD, calling people 'delusional' or that their opinions 'they pull out their ass' is childish and offensive as well. If you're going to moderate, do it with everybody, not having double standards ignoring offensive comments like this, or those clearly shady, just because they praise your work.
