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Hi Izack!
Careers of most artists is a wave. It grows, it peaks for about 6 years then it slowing goes down with the back catalog representing a larger and larger part of continuous sales. Considering where they are on this wave and the distance, big females of the 90s won't catch her anymore, not in a near/mid future at least, that would take several decades if that ever happens. So we must look at a younger generation. Artists from early 00s are also too far / too deep in their career to come even close, so the last generation that can still eventually do it is supposedly Adele, Rihanna, Taylor Swift. They are still a very, very, very long way before even coming close, so while it's possible in like 20 years there is still a lot that can happen before that. The former would have the best shot if she starts being more productive but even there it's a lot of supposition.
Hi Nick!
No, I don't think so. We tend to think about how much artists do well, but streaming isn't that much about the artist really. It's about the sound. People listen to sounds they like. Madonna has always been good at catching trends of the moment, always managing to apply them in a successful way. This boosted her sales with new material all along her career, but it also makes her songs more dated now, more linked to their original era. People like consistent and contemporary playlists. If she releases a new song that fits into current trends, I have no doubt the public will have no issue in streaming it. It's just that her past music isn't as much in line with the current tastes. Adult contemporary songs aren't moving that much sound-wise, so they live longer.
It's just surprising to me because I feel like a lot of people DO listen to Madonna and that The Immaculate Collection has stood the test of time as well as Thriller. Hence, why it has continued to sell since 1990.
Hi Nick!
TIC is definitely nowhere near Thriller. It sold well during the 90s, but that decade was wild and she was still very popular back then, constantly with new singles out, constantly touring, so since only draw attention of course it did well. Since the release of Celebration it sells way less. Thriller sold about as many catalog sales than TIC since 1992, but its tracks were also sold millions and millions times on History, Volume 1, The Essential, Number Ones, This Is It, etc. The strength of its songs was exploited through all these records. Now that streams reflect the entire consumption of its users, it is a replacement of all former records combined.
I wasn't saying TIC was as POPULAR as Thriller, that would be crazy. I said the songs have stood the test of the time as well as Thriller if not more. Almost all the songs on TIC, like Thriller, still get played widely on the radio, a lot. More than the songs from Whitney or Mariah's peak eras. And Madonna DID NOT tour a lot AT ALL during the 90s. She only toured twice, and that was in 1990 and 1992. She didn't tour again until The Drowned World Tour. TIC continued to sell very well even when her career took a huge nosedive during the Erotica/Sex Book controversy, proof of how popular vintage era Madonna songs are.
Nick, are you seriously saying that tracks "stood the test of the time" as well as Thriller songs, and that sales during the Erotica era are a proof of how popular "vintage era Madonna songs" are? Let's be real, by 1992 these songs were absolutely NOT vintage. Tracks on TIC were from 2 to 9 years old, we are 26 years later! It would be like saying that Adele's songs are vintage or "stood the test of time". All popular songs stay popular some years, even more when the artist continues releasing / touring. I precisely said that thinking of tours up to 2008 (pre-Celebration) and especially to The Girlie Show World Tour, it went through the US in October 1993 and that's exactly the last time TIC saw the BB200. That shows it sold well thanks to the tour by then, more than by sheer organic appeal of its tracks. Since its release, the album has only been ONE week inside the Top 10 catalog chart (and that too, was exactly when the Drowned World Tour was in the US). It's not like it was insanely massive, the market was huge + she was global and still very active, so naturally it added large numbers, but it was still not the mega huge catalog seller you suggest. Anyway, the main point is simply that you definitely can't argue these songs are still massively popular based on sales of TIC more than 25 years ago when the album hadn't even move to the catalog chart.
What is "comprehensive audio streaming" and why you don't count it too? 🙂
She's not pop, she has release multiple albums with different music genres each one.
She is pop. Please. Relase a bunch of different genres doesn't change her main sound.
Disagree. Many 80's songs are getting big streaming numbers (La Isla Bonita is doing extremely good on Youtube too). It's all about promotion by the apps/sites. Spotify sadly promotes only selected artists, the popular 80's playlists aren't getting updated normally, they just mix the songs from the last week, nothing else... Madonna -considering she's not added in many popular playlists- has a decent 8-9m monthly listeners.
Hi Johnny!
These conspiracy theories bring nowhere. Spotify aren't dictators purposedly going after singer X or Y. Their decisions are taken on the back of algorythms that factor in streams, skip rates, go-through rates, and more. When the audience of a playlist reacts positively to one song on it, it will go up and up, when it doesn't react so well the song will automatically go down / quit. If Madonna's songs or anyone else's songs aren't playlisted that well, it's because their audience aren't liking them as much as the ones which are playlisted, it's as simple as that!
She has released multiple albums with a mix of different genre. But her main genre is still pop regardless. Same like Pink and Avril Lavigne. They both are ROCK singers. With some influence of pop. But they are still basically rock just like Madonna is still basically a pop singer.
Spotify promotes artist that are big on their sites. Its ridiculous to think that they purposely dont want to promote certain artists. When there is demand there will be heavy promotions. Big corporations like spotify dont care about personal preferences. They only care about money and demands.
Pink and Avril Lavigne are definitely not considered rock, at least in America. They are as pop as Madonna.
Hi MJD, do you think when Queen are updated, that they will overtake Madonna on overall sales. Particularly because of Bohemian Rhapsody movie?
Pink and Avril is Pop Rock. Just look at their image. They dont look like a pop singer. They are rock singers. Sure there are some pop influence in their songs. But as a whole they are rock acts
Avril was more rock act in early years. P!nk never was. She started as R&B, changed for Pop and found herself as Pop/Rock. Now both of them are more Pop.
Hi Michael!
I have to disagree here, while from a pop eye singers like Pink / Avril can be seen as more rock than the likes Spears / Aguilera, there is no rock fan that will ever consider them to be rock, while asked about rock female singles Pink / Avril will not even cross their mind. If you type "rock female singers" on google, they come as the 30th and 40th entries of their scrolling list, to give you an idea Donna Summer and Aretha Franklin are sandwitched between both!
That's what I'm saying. Then don't add her in many popular playlists so we can see if she will do well. I've seen her in only 2 popular playlists and she still there. That's all. I just can't believe some of her songs aren't doing that well yet on Spotify, considering they were popular when they got released. She has many classics. La Isla Bonita as I said, got unblocked recently on Youtube and the views went from 5.000.000 to 105.000.000 in 5,5 months (u should do and update to her discography 🙂 ), but on Spotify it has 58m. Madonna's stats are so confusing...
The point Johnny is that they already know! From outside we tend to see playlists individually, check where an artist is / isn't. Spotify have algorythms to know very precisely which demographics listen to each playlist and which how much these demographics love each song. We have to see all playlists as a huge scheme rather than many individual ones. Songs appearing on big ones are songs that performed very well on lower, more targeted playlists.
The way to view this whole scheme is exactly this one: not-that-big playlists focus on pleasing a specific audience. Gangsta rap, joggers, 80s, whatever. There is many of them covering the entire spectrum of listeners. Songs falling completely inside the demographic of a playlist will make it. The biggest is a playlist, the most its songs will cross-over distinct audiences. They gained their spot there because everyone love them.
We can point out 3 main audiences - urban music lovers, pop fans, and rock fans. Like 99% of genres will be sub-families of these audiences. The largest playlists will include only songs that can appeal to all 3 audiences. Nowadays, rap fans as well as classic rock fans aren't listening to Madonna. That's why her impact on big crossover playlists is very limited, because she hasn't the audience for it. Most of her songs end up on a secondary league of playlists focused in pleasing pop fans, 80s music lovers, some love-themed up tempos, etc. These are still fairly large ones in reality, tons of former US #1 hits aren't even on 10 million streams on Spotify, so Madonna's songs on 30-60 million aren't like completely forgotten. These are still great numbers in their target, it's just that she doesn't have these few songs that rap, rock, and pop fans all enjoy.
Hi Nick!
Not sure if it has been true at some point, but it certainly isn't right now! Singles certified Gold or more in the US:
70 Drake
61 Taylor Swift
54 Elvis Presley
44 Eminem
44 Rihanna
39 Kanye West
38 Chris Brown
33 Kenny Chesney
30 Michael Jackson
28 The Beatles
28 Ed Sheeran
27 Kendrick Lamar
27 Madonna
Obviously, this mixes Standard and Digital awards, but that's how the RIAA does it. Anyway, Elvis for example has more standard awards.
Ah! I read on wikipedia she has more gold physical singles than any other solo artist. Another reason to take wiki with a grain of salt.
But Madonna doesn't have a MAIN sound. She's an artist that was changing genres with each album, from pop, to pop/rock, electronica, RnB, jazz, EDM etc. She's not just pop for sure.
It's not about Gold or more. It's about Gold. A lot of artists have more Platinum or Multi-Platinum singles but Madonna is about Gold. Madonna has 19 now. This fact tells more about her little-by-little success in US than about her past superiority.
