Forum
Hi dhhd!
If they were issued by the China National Publications Import and Export Corp, then it's logical that no version appears in Discogs! It means they were sold as imports, so no local version was produced. Copies sold in China were exports from some other version, maybe from Southeast Asia, maybe from the US, we don't know. It's the same situation I pointed out when you asked for remaining Asian sales of Jackson's Dangerous, markets that got only imports. The only way to actually know which version was likely sold in China is to check owners of all versions and see if some of them has many owners living in China, but that would take weeks to check with no guarantee of results 😉
BTW, I don't doubt she did well there!
https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Billboard/90s/1993/BB-1993-05-15.pdf
"Warner Music says
Eric Clapton's "Unplugged" has
sold 450,000 units across Southeast
Asia, including more than 200,000 in
South Korea (regionally, Warner
Music previously reached 1 million
units with a Madonna release)."
All albums mentioned in the article were all from 90s, so it mostly like speaking about TIC reached 1 million in Southeast Asia by 15/05/1993. According to RIAJ, TIC was 2xP by 1992 and 3xP by 1994, which suggested about 500k-600k shipped in Japan by then, where it eventually sold 1135k copies. So, is it possible that TIC topped 2 million mark there up to date? BTW, I do not believe TIC topped 500k mark in Taiwan, because Taiwanese media always report that STR is Madonna's best-selling album there, neither TB nor TIC. Taiwanese markets was small in 80s, that's why platinum was only equal to 20k for international releases back then, the same level as Hong Kong. so I also doubt that "TB sold 500k" thing according to old nelson post.
Hi MJD
Well then how do you estimated 7.7 million for True Blue? Was it the same for other albums released before SS era? I just wonder this^^
Hi, MJD
According to AMPROFON only albums since Music got certified. And Billboard magazine reported Erotica at 250k in 90s. Where did the LAP and ROL figures for Mexico from? On the ukmix page it was said that LAP at 2xP+G and ROL at P, but AMPROFON showed nothing about these certications.
Hi dhhd!
I agree that the article is in all likelihood about TIC. I doubt its catalog sales there topped the ones from Japan though. If it multiplied its tally by 2 there, it should have done a bit less in continental Asia. We should keep in mind that their markets collapsed in 1998-2003 (depending on the country), while Japanese market remained healthy much longer. When I have this situation, I always downgrade the extrapolation for the rest of Asia based on Japanese sales timeline by about 20% for this reason.
This is a general remark, with TIC why not, it's always possible although unlikely. It doesn't take much: if she toured there just before, a good part of this million was just shipped / ordered and had yet to be sold, if she toured just after, then the x2 becomes possible. I'm lazy to check the details right now, my point is that at times tiny details can be very tricky and change the reality of the situation!
Well I don't keep track of all the details, I always do multiple calculations in this kind of situations (extrapolations on the back of remaining albums' evolution, discogs users or whatever) to set up the most realistic value, then I only keep track of the up to date Soundscan number that way once I update, I only have to check how much it increased at Soundscan since now clubs are over. The best way to understand RIAA mechanics and how to work with them is to check this article, that should clear many of your doubts!
Hi again!
I saved these all awards myself back in the day. They were available for sale at EIL website. LAP award was given in 1992, ROL in 1999, and also STR Plat in 1995. Amprofon wasn't around by then so they were given directly by labels here too. While we should always take them with a pinch of salt, there was an heavy amount of them available and most appeared to be realistic and consistent with the popularity of artists that was later revealed by Amprofon / YouTube Insights / Discogs.
Hi MJD
Madonna never came to Southeast Asia until Rebel Heart Tour and pure sales there already ended since then, so no need to check her tour history. BTW, can you give a receipt that how you estimated 1135k for Japan, just like you gave a receipt for estimate of 750k for Brazil? Its oricon sales is at 409k and RIAJ certified it shipped 800k by 1998. I remember back then imports were not that big? And, when you estimate continental Asian sales, do you usually only calculate the main 8 markets and ignored countries like China or India or somewhere (not the case of MJ)? But some were official issued and did well there...
https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=aggEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA73&dq=madonna+erotica+mexico&hl=zh-CN&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwili_qWoMLgAhWK7WEKHdfvCYoQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=madonna%20erotica%20mexico&f=false
Billboard magazine reoported Erotica sold 250k in Mexico by November 1994, it added no catalog sales since then? Also the claim of The Bodyguard being the best-selling English album sounds fake, but the sales number should be right..And what is the 400k thing for Thriller?Wasn't it certified 1.6 million in 2009?
https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=9gsEAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA93&dq=warner+madonna+4.2+million+billboard&hl=zh-CN&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJrcGuocLgAhXaMt4KHYlbDhQQ6AEIIzAB#v=onepage&q=warner%20madonna%204.2%20million%20billboard&f=false
Warner says "between July 1994 and January 1996", does it mean releases between the peroid, or shipments counting between the period? Did major labels usually mean releases between the period?
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/65823726_madonna-israeli-record-award
STR was Gold=20k in Israel by December 1995.
https://books.google.co.jp/books?hl=zh-CN&id=CCUEAAAAMBAJ&dq=like+a+virgin+hong+kong+platinum&q=like+a+virgin#v=onepage&q=like%20a%20virgin%20hong%20kong&f=false
LAV was 2xPlatinum=40k in Hong Kong by March 1986.
https://books.google.co.jp/books?hl=zh-CN&id=UiQEAAAAMBAJ&dq=true+blue+hong+kong&q=philippines#v=snippet&q=philippines&f=false
TB was Gold=10k in Hong Kong and Gold=20k in Philippines by 23/08/1986.
Hi dhhd!
I do not focus on the main 8 markets for Asia, I always check what's available in every country. Obviously, not that long ago, without Discogs / YouTube, the info was more sparse, but markets have never been ignored. About the Mexican claim, it's a typo inside the article, Jackson's figure refer to Dangerous, and the claim for Bodyguard isn't top seller of all-time, but for "last year", here 1993, although they quoted up to date sales of all albums big in 1993 (even if, like Dangerous, they also sold in 91/92).
About Erotica, it's a tricky case, she went on tour in Latin America in late 1993 and huge shipments quotes came out from multiple countries. It's unsure if they were all sold, and it's fairly safe that they have been enough to meet the demand since this album already outsold it's "standard" potential there thanks to these shows. The Mexican figure appears to be too low still.
Warner figure refers to shipments between these dates supposedly. Labels often come out with similar claims based on financial reports tracking periods.
To finish, about TIC in Japan I don't remember in detail, considering the lack of data for sales there in recent years I most likely used the default method, meaning I calculated the % of increase in countries where sales are under control up to 1998 and to date and extrapolated from there.
https://pro-musicabr.org.br/home/certificados/?busca_artista=Madonna&busca_tipo_produto=CD&busca_tipo_certificado=Platina
STR never certified Platinum in Brazil. But it upgraded its certification from 1996 (Gold) to 1998. That remains a mystery.
Her catalog as a whole is doing well on youtube. And La Isla Bonita is by far her biggest hit on it--it is getting about 380,000 views a day and a total of more than 265 million (between its two videos).
Both Madonna and Bruce Springsteen release their new album June 14th
Who do you think is going to come out on top??
Dont know about Bruce. But Madonna's new single suck. I dont see that album smashing. Unless she release a strong second single before the albun is release. I dont think she will make it big.
