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She is the female artist with more physical gold/platinum certifications (Elvis and Beatles are ahead).
During the 80's Gold was 1 million copies (though maxi-singles counted double for certifications). That means lot's of her 80's records could be re-certified to platinum. The changed occurred on late 1989 that means (yet some of her 80's singles with no certification were certified during the 90's):
- Like a Virgin (Gold in 1985) - 1 million + if subject for certification would be platinum
- Crazy For You (Gold in 1985) - 1 million + if subject for certification would be platinum
- Angel/Into The Groove (Gold in 1985) - 860k sales but was a maxi-single only so was counting double for certifications - the best selling maxi-single from the 80's in US according to Billboard. Not sure what happens with new rules (if that still applies and gets platinum or if it stays gold).
- Like a Prayer (Platinum 1989) - 2 million + It could be 2 platinuns
- Express Yourself (Gold 1989) - 1 million + if subject for certification would be platinum.
Not sure if any other Madonna record from the 80's could be gold if a re-certification as only the record company knows the exact sales.
All the big artists from the 80's had their sales re-certified once they were dead. As Madonna is still here they did nothing yet but it make her look like she sold less than them when she was one of the biggest selling singles (and maxi-singles) artist out there.
Elvis singles were all re-certified from 1992 to 2006 and that's how he got more platinum and gold records later on (based on that late 1989 change).
Warner Music probably doesn't care. Just like her digital songs and streams that already would give her at least 1 additional digital platinum award for "Like Prayer" (that already had 1.1 million downloads in US alone as 2016 published on Billboard - I would assume has even more now). They probably want to wait to re-certified lots of her songs at once. Just now "Like a Prayer" would be at least 3 platinum with a re-certifications (2 physical + 1 digital).
From the digital era her only recent song already ready to be certified Gold in US is "Bitch I'm Madonna" due to digital sales and streaming (thanks to Nicki Minaj and the all stars video too). Whenever her record company wants to submit the application and pay the fee she gets a new digital single gold record from this decade.
MJD, during the 90's Madonna did less than 100 concerts worldwide and all of them on 1990 (57 concerts - the last one was 3 months before TIC was released) and 1993 (39 concerts that grossed $70 million). During the 90's she only did 5 concerts in US after the release of TIC - during the entire decade. She played 29 US dates on May and June 1990 promoting "I'm Breathless" and "Like a Prayer" albums months before TIC was released. Those 34 concerts were all she played in US for the 90's (and were 35% of all the concerts she played during that decade).
Only in 2001 Madonna did another concert tour (to promote "Ray of Light" and "Music" albums) yet was another short tour with only 47 concerts worldwide (and this time 28 of them were in the US). Yet it was short made $76.8 millions and broke the record as most grossing tour by a female artist at the time that had been set by her in 1993 (that also broke her own record set by her previous tour from 1990 that made $62.7 millions). These records were also broke by Madonna already three times now and her 2008/2009 tour remains the most grossing tour by a female artist. Despite being the most grossing tour solo artist ever (since 1990 until now since those number are correctly accounted) she played less than 515 concerts during these past 29 years (even Lady Gaga played more during the past 10 years).
Even during the 80's Madonna did not played many concerts. Her 1985 "Virgin Tour" had 40 dates and was just in North America (39 in US and 1 concert in Canada - probably explains her huge sales in US that year) and her first world tour was in 1987 and had just 38 concerts (22 of them in US). That's just 78 concerts during the entire decade and 61 of them in US.
MJD, Billboard had a rule that all albums on BB200 older than 2 years were removed and would only chart on TOP POP CATALOG Chart. Not sure when the rule was created but probably in late 1991 introducing soundscan system for tracking sales and that's why the album still charted in 1993 (otherwise would already be 2 years older sooner).
So BB200 rules for albums just like the CURRENT ALBUM SALES is now (for a comparation). That's why the last time TIC was when it was getting close from those 2 years from release. The next week it got into TOP CATALOG for 2 years in a row. That rule for BB 200 was changed in 2009 only and BB Current Album Sales was created.
The album did return to TOP POP CATALOG later on for several times spending a total 290 weeks on that chart (it peaked #06 on February 2016).
Once the up dates for Queen and Madonna are done, then we will find Queen will jump ahead of Madonna into fourth place and will leave quite a gap!! I would of thought this will happen before the end of the year.
Hi Pepper!
Well first I have to say that I know you are Antonhy, a former user banned quite a long time ago for repetitive spamming / insistent requests completely off topic. As I said to Steve some days ago, I have nothing personal against you, so if you want to comeback I don't mind. If you adopt the same behaviour as in the past / as you do in this message, you will be banned again though.
As for your question, we debated about it internally already and decided to exclude sales of the movie. It's not a concert video, it's a proper movie with a plot, actors and everything, it's not a Queen product.
Hi Nuno!
The same 10 countries are always used because of their representativeness added to the availability of their data.
As for European sales, 8.36 million is already an awful lot. There was no European Platinum award in 1987, not sure what's your source but it can't be valid. Also, as a general comment, the reissues you mention add very little sales.
Hi Nuno!
Video singles have been added to physical singles. Maxi singles have been counted as 1, and that for example means that Vogue sold well under 2 million in the US in spite of being 2xP. About supposed Warner claims and Guinness, if I was you I wouldn't waste too much time on them! 😉
Hi again Nuno!
A small correction: the singles criteria was downgraded at the start of 1989 in the US, not at the end of it. Express Yourself went Gold for 500k shipped, Like A Prayer Platinum for 1 million.
No doubt Madonna is one of the very best selling artists of physical singles.
Hi Nuno!
It seems you missunderstood my comment. I wasn't judging her touring stats, only stating that the last time (of the 90s) TIC has been inside the Billboard 200 list, that was because she was touring, meaning that outside of high promotional periods the compilation wasn't organically among the very top selling best of albums in the US.
About your following message, I'm very well aware of the history of Billboard rankings. That's why I refered to stats on the comprehensive album chart and mentioned catalog charts statistics for in-between years (to 2003). The highest TIC ever went there during the decade was #13 when Ray Of Light was issued, which shows it was never one of the very top catalog albums in the decade, unlike similar packages from the Eagles, Journey, Bob Seger, etc.
BTW, albums used to feature the BB200 instead of the catalog chart as long as they hadn't drop out of the former list for at least one month, that's why TIC remained nearly 3 years there and Nick Of Time even longer back then.
Can I know what would her total sales be (so albums, compilations. physical and digital singles etc) if we also added the extra discs u talked about on elvis page?? cuz you said elvis had sold around 60M extra discs, mj 34M, the beatles +100M could you plz tell me madonna's??? thanks a lot and if u can exlain to me what you mean with "extra discs" cuz i'm really confused lol
Hi MJD! Thank you for the analysis, since this was done 2 years ago, when could be get an update? She has got some new certifications and also released Madame X and RHT, also her streaming numbers have grown a lot, for example MG was 54k EAS and now is 126k EAS and LAP was 85k EAS and now is 152k EAS, those two already add 139k EAS, so many she could be around 246M EAS?
Thank you again for all the time and work you put into this.
But these "rises" are just so paltry, in the grand scheme of things, that she is way down the list of artists to be revised. Artists that have had significantly greater rises, will be prioritised.
New sales receipts:
Like A Virgin sold only 10k legitimate copies in Taiwan by November 1985, with another estimated 300k pirate copies sold. However, the album was re-issued so many times through these 35 years(check Discogs and blogs of Taiwanese music record collecters) , it was very possible that most sales there were done in late 80s and 90s.
https://books.google.com/books?id=hiQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=warner+music+indonesia+madonna+sales&source=bl&ots=XLqI9H7x2M&sig=ACfU3U0_oMgq2H77hjKF8qDS5rAbMcOt_w&hl=zh-CN&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjAwYr8z53kAhWTx4sBHcTGBaw4ChDoATAGegQIBBAB#v=onepage&q=warner%20music%20indonesia%20madonna%20sales&f=false
I also think it's too early for MJD to update her. After a couple of years, maybe.
I understand it's too early fo MJD to update and it won't change the big picture. But this article serves as a source for a chart in Russian Wikipedia Madonna article. I'm not sure traffic from here is big but generally it's a significant SEO factor. Without update the link to this analysis is likely to disappear because wiki has a strong policy towards articles with "good" status. It's just not relevant without 440k of Madame X results.
MJD, I worked with Warner Music Portugal in the 90's and the shipments in reality are sales from labels to stores. Returns are always taken down on the system and are rarely big so if awards were issued it means it did sold that to stores and the record label does what it takes to guarantee it won't have a lower number because of returns. And I know Warner from inside and most of the time they would not ask for awards certifications, would wait a bit to ask later and just pay once (everytime they ask they pay...). That was an international police, not just for Portugal.
The numbers you have for any record before 1999 (Madonna or any other artist) are very difficult to be precise - especially in US for any release before 1991 when soundscan was not even in use. Vogue was released on 1990 and if it was 2 platinum in US it means Warner did sold 2 million singles or maxi-singles equivalents from the song on the physical format to stores and that stores did sold them eventually (singles had no returns - just albums!). Even after mid 1991 when it began soundscan only covered about 70% of the US sales (according to Billboard Magazine at the time small independent shops and club sales were not counted).
Most maxi-singles had from 3 to 10 tracks and were sold from $7 to $11 each while singles had 2 tracks and cost $2 to $3 (sometimes even less - Mariah Carey sparked some controversy in the 90's for selling singles at $1 and even $0,50 to get the songs to #01 on Billboard). It's unfair for maxi-singles to be counted as the same (especially for dance artists from 80's, 90's and early 00's). I understand that you may not have a way to get real data on that, especially from outside US but singles costed 1/3 of what maxi-singles cost and have less than half the tracks. It's quite a difference, especially on acts that are successful on the dance floor.
Madonna , as you certainly know, is one of the best selling maxi-single artists in History (due to remixes success on the clubs) having sold ten's of millions of the format in vinyl and CD. In US she was the #01 maxi-single sales artists for the 80's, 90's and 00's. Angel/Into The Groove maxi-single was the best selling maxi-single on the 80's in US with sales of almost 900k (as stated on Billboard decade end special issue for each of those 3 decades).
Today every remix if sold on iTunes are counted as 1 digital single. Yet a physical single counts 3 times more with your method but a maxi-single easily have (especially in 90's and 00's) 6 to 10 tracks. In same cases after early 90's was easier to get it (in some cases maxi-singles were issues as "SONG NAME remixes" but not always). How do you count the digital single sales from remixes song collections (the so called EP's with multiple tracks/remixes that are equivalent to maxi-singles and chart now on the iTunes album chart - some are still issued on physical format, vinyl or CD in limited editions).
Did maxi-singles counted the same for award certification in US? Maybe that's why "Vogue" has 2 platinum awards.
"Vogue" single was 2 tracks and "Vogue" maxi-single had 4 tracks in US.
Thanks for correction! Thought it was on December 1989 (like are most Billboard changes too).
I decided to take some time to sum up and make stats on streaming and found out that Madonna EAS from streaming would add about 1.5 million today to her total on the 2017 analysis. Her new album already sold over 400k pure sales already (which is not that bad for the times being) and her GHs albums have been on iTunes global TOP 200 charts for many days on this past 2 years. Her singles/song sales must be quite small but all summed up will certainly account for over 100k EAS in this 2 year period. With her album release retail stores also put her Warner catalog albums with promo-prices leading some of those albums to even chart in some countries official album charts. This November her first 4 albums will also be released on limited editions in clear vinyl for Record Store Day (at least in US and Europe). Not much added sales for sure but all summed up and , a few thousands here and there and we probably get over a million catalog albums from 2017 until 2020 (from all the 27 album releases together and tracks sales translated into EAS points - plus a few Record Store specials albums and maxi-singles/EPs ).
It's amazing how some songs jumped on streams. How 1987 "La Isla Bonita" was at 55.8 million and it is already over 325 millions on YouTube various videos summed up on Madonna channel, gaining over 360k views per day on average for the song videos total (even on Spotify this song jumped from 37.3 million to 86.5 million). Unfortunately all did not jump so much ("Vogue" was 103 million and now is close to 150 million only on YouTube). On Spotify songs like "Material Girl" had 48 million and are now over 126 million (even others less listened hit tracks like "Crazy For You" - was at 12 million and is now over 33 million already). Her songs from this decade are not so lucky having much lower percentage gains. Some old videos and some live videos that were uploaded in 2018 also contributed to a bigger increase on YouTube views (yet they still did not put all ever videos that played on MTV back in the day on YouTube). Strange that "Gambler", a 1985 Top 5 Hit in UK is still not available on Spotify and was just uploaded to YouTube last year!
Overall she more than doubled the streaming numbers for Spotify and You Tube since the 2017 update. This happened because her streaming numbers were already pretty low and are slowly rising. She is now gaining an average 1.5 million daily YouTube Streams and over 2 million daily Spotify streams (over 300k from the new album alone on Spotify and over 115k on YouTube). If she keeps up this pace during the next months it should be interesting to check after the world tour she is starting today where she landed.
I hope you update her stats by the end of her "Madame X" tour. It starts today and it's supposed to end during March 2020 (not sure as just yesterday 2 new shows were announced after the previous end date) as I believe that by then Madonna sales will be at least over 3 million EAS than when the last update was made (as now they are already over 2 million EAS higher).
I do also hope that the maxi-single sales for Madonna are adjusted as some estimated over 15% of her physical single sales were maxi-singles and not just singles (since the early 00's most of singles were even only sold as maxi-single CDs in some european countries and 2 or 3 tracks CDs were not even available). I believe that will also add a few million EAS as she is one of the best selling maxi-single/EP/Remixes acts in History (If I understood right they were not took into account when the 2017 update and counted as regular singles, am I right?).
Will Queen be ahead of Madonna? It's very possible as they just had a huge hit with their "Bohemian Rhapsody" OST but we will only know after both artists are updated. I'm very curious!
Nuno, Queen are probably way ahead of Madonna at this point due to their popularity on youtube and spotify. But Madonna will retain her position as the only female in the top 10 selling artists of all time (and maybe stay in the top 5).
I'd imagine so Nick. It's quite probable that Bohemian Rhapsody the track, has added more to its overall total and Queens, than Madonnas entire catalogue has to hers. To be be fair, it's probably added more, than quite a few artists entire catalogues!
Since Queens analysis in 2017, it has added around 800,000 EAS from Spotify and Youtube streaming. Don't Stop Me Now, around 300,000 from just Spotify.
Hi again Nuno!
Actually, I was answering on the formula used for Madonna's article, since then maxi-singles ratio has been changed to 0.5. Also, when a maxi-single has 10 tracks or so, we do not hesitate in counting it as an album. As for the RIAA, yes, they used to count 1 maxi single = 2 singles back when they were popular.
About returns, it really depends on the release. Most records sell their initial shipments, but Q4 releases from big names often come short!
Hi Nuno!
Not contradicting your numbers at all, but adding a point that is important: we refined a lot our formulas since we started CSPC articles. The most notable change for Madonna is that physical singles used to be over-estimated. The main reason was that extrapolations valid for albums were used, but less markets outside of the big ones had a single market during the 80s to the 00s. So while she undoubtedly added a few millions in real life, an update would also include possibly numbers reviewed in the low side. Obviously, same applies for Queen!
Thanks! I still don't understand pretty well your single estimations. I know it must be hard to do that without having access to any real data but as I've seen from the inside the numbers on Warner Music computers during the 90's and as I said before your estimations for Madonna already seem pretty low.
How you get the u.s. Sales for IMC at Nearly 12m? It has been twenty years since last certified. Did the soundscan gain 2m?
