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I live in Brazil bro you live in brazil if yes u can discuss with me his popularity here, so Do you live in Brazil?
150k is a lot once we consider his albums weren't even released there by Death Row, which obviously wasn't a global label. 2Pac sold tons of units through piracy there, on ebay-like websites his most popular albums up to this day are actually pirat ones.
A closer to reality view of his popularity there would be YouTube annual views:
2Pac - 51.2 million
Notorious B.I.G. - 26.4 million
Nas - 5.71 million
Wu-Tang Clan - 3.28 million
Mobb Deep - 3.00 million
A Tribe Called Quest - 927,000
Even contemporary acts like Kanye (43.9 million) and Kendrick (39.7 million) are behind 2Pac.
I haven't said it is 'the most' popular ever, I said it's widely regarded as the best, which means it is among the ones that would be very frequently mentioned when asking to hip-hop fans what's the best rap album ever.
If it is 'the' most popular or not, I would say the only serious challenger would be Illmatic.
Also, you say that "among hip-hop fans" it is "obviously" not the most popular album because of Eminem. This is flawed. Em' sold so well precisely because he sold tons of albums to non-hip hop fans. If we define an hip hop fans as every person who has, say, 20 or more hip hop albums at home, I definitely wouldn't take the risk to assume there would be more copies of TMMLP than AEOM.
Let's not pretend I don't know them, Analord.
I wasn't speaking specifically about all the ones you listed, their level of success is very different. From someone like Kanye who has tons of #1 albums to A Tribe Called Quest or Mobb Deep, who couldn't get more than a pair of weeks in a top 10 with one album, there's a wild gap.
My message was an answer to the spirit of your messages, that ignored the hip hop community reality, instead focusing on critics' darlings, with, let's face it, critics being mainly 60+ white people.
The irony with the critics bubble is that they love to call 'best' anyone who tried something before others, yet on their own field they can't do a thing but copy each other. They mix 'pioneers' or 'influential' with 'best' all the time. As if music shouldn't be entertaining. As if rap music isn't supposed to bring a message. 'Ohhh, they were the ones who brought samples in?! Ok we put them 1st!'. Then you get lists saying Paid in Full is the best rap album of all-time. Then so many 'critics' are just too bored / uninterested to dig into the genre they just kept repeating the same stuff.
That's how you end up with albums like Paid in Full or It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back which have more people listing them on their "all-time best" lists online than people actually streaming these albums. It happens to other genres as well obviously, I can mention Screamadelica just to point out another clear example. These are the ones nobody really heard of, myself I asked several times what's their favorite track off the record to people claiming Screamadelica was so good, and more often than not what I was expecting happened, meaning that they weren't able to tell me a single song from the record.
Back to rap, as I said the core of rap music is to bring a message, so what should matter to know who did it 'best' is who brought the most meaningful message, and who was able to be deliver it in the most impactful way. 2Pac obviously spoke a lot to the hip hop community, he was their spokesperson, the one who delivered their message the best. That he was the one who used samples first matters very little.
Great that youtube numbers on Brazil The discs of 2pac here always were expensive I remember when I bought the greatest hits I paid an absurd price and detail the cd wasn´t import AEOM and Makaveli I remember those 2 albums arrived in 2005 because a label of here got the rights to launch here before that only import even more expensive, high prices at poor country and famous for piracy mainly in the music market.
I still don't understand what you're basing this on... Why exactly do you believe that All Eyez On Me is “often regarded as the greatest rap album of all-time” ? Is it just a guess ?
I wasn't talking about critics, I was talking about real/serious hip-hop fans, i.e. people who don't only listen to the most popular and commercial stuff. It's not like I mentioned MF Doom or something...
Fair enough, lots of people in Brazil though, here's views/population for the countries you've estimated :
New Zealand 2.5
US 1.7
Australia 1.2
UK 0.9
Canada 0.9
Netherlands 0.8
Switzerland 0.7
France 0.6
Germany 0.5
Finland 0.5
Austria 0.4
Sweden 0.4
Italy 0.3
Argentina 0.2
Brazil 0.2
Mexico 0.2
Spain 0.2
Japan 0.04 !
How do you explain the super low number for Japan ? Also, isn't streaming much bigger in Latin America than elsewhere ? I vaguely remember reading something about that...
“At 79,715,000 EAS, 2Pac is among the 5 most successful rappers of all-time.”
I am assuming the top 5 will be something like this order:
- Eminem
- Drake
- Kanye (if not past 2Pac now, will be)
- 2Pac
- Jay-z
but for a complete top 10 at least would it be Lil Wayne, Nicki Minaj, Snoop, Kendrick, 50 Cent?
Because I feel like I’m missing someone, like where would Nelly, The Notorious Big or Beastie Boys fit in the list? Now that I think about it the Beastie Boys would be above Kendrick
I've just heard / saw it so many times. While I'm white, I grew myself on France's largest 'ghetto', I lived in Africa, and travelled through many places, always caring about details related to music. I mean, you can see AEOM's cover painted on buses in Nairobi.
In the other message you said you don't talk about critics, but elitists basing their opinion on them are just about the same. On ranker you can see a list less silly, and (un)surprisingly, the likes It Takes... and Paid in Full are much lower. I would say that on this list, albums at 1-6+8 are the ones always mentioned as the best rap album ever. AEOM, Chronic, Illmatic, GKMC, Ready to Die, etc. these are all 'often regarded as the greatest' rap album.
These are expected results Analord, at the top a group of English-speaking countries from NZ to CA, with NZ a prime market for black artists, then a group of western countries with a lot of English speakers and opened to the US culture for long, from NL to SE, then latin countries where urban artists are fairly weaker, and then Japan where people can't care about YouTube. You can check results of Janet Jackson, Boyz II Men or any other rapper the relative numbers will always be the same.
So it is a guess then, OK. I think it's misleading though, it implies that AEOM is the Sgt. Peppers of hip-hop or something which is obviously not true, even on Ranker (where Eminem is the "best rapper of all-time"...) it's only #5, way behind Illmatic.
And elitism and sophistication aren't the same thing by the way 😉
So you agree that "everybody knows 2Pac in Brazil" was a little hyperbolic then...
Of course it is, as even Michael Jackson is unknown to a lot of people worldwide in absolute terms. It doesn't change the fact that he is obviously a very, very popular rapper there, and actually bigger than the ones you listed.
May I strongly disagree with your definition of 'guess'?
The issue here is that you jumped on one sentence because you misread it. I wrote that AEOM is 'often regarded as', you understood 'the most critically acclaimed album', then switched to 'always regarded as' and then to 'the most often regarded as'. All these are different sentences and meanings. It's obvious that AEOM is often regarded as the best rap album of all-time. It's not a guess, you can find plenty of people who will mention it, and you can also find tons of random lists online where it's at the top.
Also, I don't think that being 5th, on a virtual tie with 2-4 positions, can be called 'only', nor that it proves the album isn't often regarded as the best - quite the opposite.
Absolute correct your mention MJD about 2pac popularity in Brazil in comparison others american rappers
The Beastie Boys would be around Lil Wayne's level I think, and Snoop and 50 Cent would be above Nicki. Also let's not forget about the Black Eyed Peas (60m EAS).
Most listened to 90s rap albums (based on their least streamed song) :
Dr. Dre - 2001 : 18m
Eminem - The Slim Shady LP : 18m
Nas - Illmatic : 16m
Rage Against The Machine - Rage Against The Machine : 14m
Snoop Doggy Dogg - Doggystyle : 12m
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) : 11m
2Pac - All Eyez On Me : 10m
The Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die : 10m
I think that's all of them. A notable one is Lauryn Hill's Miseducation (13m) but that's more soul/r&b than rap. Also I'm not sure about Dr. Dre's The Chronic, it wasn't on Spotify until 2020 but from what I remember its streaming numbers aren't that impressive, I can't tell you precisely because I have no search credit left 🙁
I think :
Kanye has around 70-75 million EAS .
Also:
Jay-z : 60-65 million EAS ;
Lil Wayne : 55-60 million EAS ;
both Snoop Dogg & 50 Cent : 50-55 million EAS ;
Nicki Minaj : 40-45 million EAS .
OK so The Chronic's streaming numbers are indeed not very impressive, if it had been available before 2020 I'm guessing its least streamed song would be at 4m-5m. I've no idea why people prefer 2001...
I really hope to see Biggie be studied
anyways, I would say that Suge Knight and PUFF Daddy were prime suspects, since Big has spoken that he didn't wish death on anyone and was sad that 2Pac passed away (he also tried to not get involved in the beef and was adamant that he did not try to do Pac any harm)
However Suge and Puff are Both connected to shady business
