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I never mentioned Celine on my comment but go ahead if you think that will help you win the argument.
Celine did write some lines one some of her songs. Also, they are called music artists, not songwriters, etc. Again, they are called music artists, not songwriters, guitarists, etc. Remember that.
And I'm going to play your game. Prince is indeed multi-talented but despite of that, he still did not succeed as high as Celine did. For me, Celine is more multi-talented because she knows how to deal with other people that's why she is succeeding with her endeavors. Celine is so skilled with her singing that she can influence a lot of people to like her. Also, Celine made better decisions than Prince that's why she is more successful.
Calling Prince an icon I can agree with.
Celine is not a male singer. We have to categorized them because we simply cannot really compare the success of male singers to female singers and to bands/groups.
And fine if we will include male singers. But who has the top-selling single so far? Whose songs are still being played on radio, tv, etc. Who revived the economy of Las Vegas? Look at Mariah, she's still dominating every Xmas season. and both artists songs are usually being performed on singing competitions.
Celine is not in the top 10 of all time but she has done extraordinary achievements. Besides, she's still alive so I'm pretty sure she'll climb back in the top 10.
Mariah saying she was influenced by Aretha is not really a big deal deal because Aretha was just born first and became a music artist first. And Mariah became more successful than her so even if Mariah keeps on praising Aretha, we can't deny the fact that she is bigger than Aretha. So since Mariah is a bigger artist then she is more influential.
MJD and the rest. Sorry I got carried away. I will not reply to your responses anymore to give it a rest.
Come on RLAAMJR, let's be honest, there is like a dozen of implicit references to her in your message, all your comments bleed Céline through every word.
You are barely illustrating a wild ignorance of Prince on your comments. saying he hasn't been clever because he hasn't maximized his sales while his lone concern all through his career was to be artistically free is plain dumb. How can you throw away the fact that he did everything on his records, and thus was paid for every job he completed, to then argue Celine is "more successful" because she sold a few records more, while she made way less money per copy than him? It doesn't make sense at all. Ask random if they consider to be more successful earning 170m times $2 or 130m times $4 and see what they answer.
Again RLAAMJR that's utter nonsense.
Once again, you massively ignore the career of Prince. Purple Rain was next to Thriller as the greatest selling video of all-time. The album was released at summer time and shifted 8 million in 4 months to become the fastest selling album ever up to that point. He sells more catalog records than both Mariah and Celine in spite of leaving out two thirds of his albums for long. The comparison doesn't even make sense. It's so easy to point out 1 achievement by Céline / Mariah and say "see this is extraordinary" then avoid everything else. Why don't you mention that Aretha made the Hot 100 with 73 singles with weak airplay at a time where album tracks couldn't chart?! Isn't it extraordinary? If not, why Celine under a similar context charts-wise made it only 21 times? I remember you asking if Ashes would enter the Hot 100, saying if she makes it that would be extraordinary, but Aretha making it 52 times more than her is worth nothing?!
The sentence "We have to categorized them because we simply cannot really compare the success of male singers to female singers and to bands/groups" is shameful unless if you think that we should decide whether we buy an album or not depending on the gender of who's singing. It's insanely silly to say that Celine has been more successful than Prince because "she sold more", and then, when males outsold females, rather than accepting they have simply been more successful, you say that "we have to categorize", seriously? Then, how can you consider the gender is a MUST categorize argument but completely forget the market size of each periods?! Had Prince's 1983-1991 career happened in 1993-2001, he would have been most likely a higher seller than Celine by now. Same, it's beyond me how you can rate a "legend" by markets penetrated while leaving out completely the period while it's known than international records were promoted in Asia from the 90s only. Big news for you, had Céline been hot during Aretha's hey-days, she wouldn't have been more global than her, ask Barbra if you doubt it. In case you haven't notice, Prince was also black and debuted when they were still left out major radios and TV channels. But hey, we "must categorize" on the absurd gender criteria but everything that isn't fitting for Céline should be overlooked.
In the same way, as you ignore everything about his career, you completely miss the fact Prince left the music industry 25 years ago. His 'pop' career lasted until early 90s only. Thus, while remaining 80s superstars amassed huge catalog sales / strong sales of new albums, he was focused on his artistic output and his former label hadn't even bother remastering his albums until recently. The fact he sold 130m+ while quitting 25 years ago and peaking during the 80s crisis of the industry, with a back catalog given up, changing of music style one time and another, doing everything on his own, etc, is way, way, way more extraordinary than selling 60m more during the 90s bonanza over a career lasting over 30 years.
Then you conclude on "since Mariah is a bigger artist then she is more influential", really? Have you ever opened a dictionary? If different words have a different meaning it's for a reason. Stop mocking them. The influence has nothing to do with sales. Or maybe the Backstreet Boys were more influential than Aretha too?! As I said, you are embarrassing yourself spreading that much wild nonsense through so few lines. I don’t even knew it was possible to be SO biased and I have been reading fanatical comments for more than 15 years!
Oh okay thanks for the info, sorry if you mentioned it in your article and I missed it, I didn't have a chance to read through everything.
Talking about Aretha, my dear RLAAMJR, You are completely ignoring How The music industry worked in Aretha's Peak (60's and 70's). Female Artists had much more troubles to face than male Artists. Think now about a Black woman in 60's/70's. What Aretha achieved is beyond incredible. She sold millions and millions records in a age where she was in complete disadvantage. She influenced all of The New generation and keep doing This, includes Celine.
You analyse the situations with no profundity and bring the history in the way that suits you. Think more, please.
IMO and certainly from a UK perspective, I'd say Prince is more well known, more recognisable and more loved than Celine. Celine may have sold more, but Prince is definitely the one that is thought of and seen as an icon & star, in the UK. I'd also say his most popular songs have fared better over time and continue to be more well known and loved by the UK public, tracks such as 1999, Kiss, Purple Rain, When Doves Cry, Raspberry Beret, Little Red Corvette etc.
Most of Princes work over the last 20 or so years, has probably gone completely under the radar of the UK public, but I'd still say his 80's to mid 90's work and him as an artist in general, resonates more and retains more popularity amongst the UK public.
Hi MJD,
Purple Rain album "fastest-selling" album ever but again what matters is how much did the album sold in total and how well will it place against other top-selling albums of other music artists.
Aretha having 73 singles in Hot 100 is not really impressive because most of them didn't really become a hit, especially worldwide. And yes, Celine may have a poorer Hot 100 records and I could say it's because she's not American which Aretha is, but despite of that, Celine still sold more albums than Aretha even in the USA only and Celine songs are more known worldwide than those unheard 73 hit singles of Aretha. 73 hit singles only in the USA. I can only name 3 songs from Aretha and that's just because of Divas Live 1998. Only the USA are making her big, putting her with worldwide music artists to make her known worldwide as well. It's like VH1 is only used Celine, Mariah, Shania, etc to make Aretha shine on the show, which she may have cos it's where she's good at ( same with Patti, they're better live than most of the Big 5 but that's just it.) though Celine showed her that you can still generate a beautiful voice even on hitting very high notes and for me has done better than Aretha on the whole show.
Oh and let's not talk about attitude cos Aretha is definitely not a good model to young and old people.
Aretha not selling much due to being on an early period is not an excuse because her peer Barbra Streisand was still able to sell more than 100 million pure album sales. It only shows that Barbra is way bigger than her.
And again, if you check the first 20 top-selling music artists on this site, most music artists inside the top 20 started on an early period which you claimed had a weaker/smaller markets.
Prince only had one huge studio album hit. And prolly one huge hit single too which is not a known song worldwide. ( Celine Dion sung "Purple Rain" though during her concert in the Philippines.) But Celine and Mariah have proven it wasn't luck that their albums became huge hits because they were able to generate more than 2 huge album hits that resonated worldwide. My favorite song from Prince is 7 by the way.
Prince is doing better on back catalogs cos well, Celine and Mariah are still alive and they don't need to have better catalog sales anyway since they already sold a lot of albums and singles. And no matter how better Prince is on back catalogs, he will NEVER outsell Celine and Mariah.
How exactly is Aretha more influential than Mariah? How is Aretha who is only big in the USA more influential than Mariah who is big in the USA, in UK, in Japan, in the Philippines, etc? You're bringing the Backstreet Boys to the game. I would say "yes". The fact the a lot of people, especially on other parts of the world know the Backstreet Boys more than Aretha whose popularity is really contained mostly in the USA.
I know It's not just about album and single sales but sales is one of the good bases to know if a music artists is more well-known or not. So i cannot agree with you.
On page 63, titled "BONUS: Total Album (all types) Sales per Country", what are all the albums types? If you don't mind me asking.
Hi Steve!
It involves studio albums, compilations, lives, box sets, and remix albums. All are counted as 1. Music videos aren't included.
If he's overrated, then so is rock and roll. You should have sat there and ate your food.
In the UK, Prince was already regarded as the cooler version of Michael Jackson.
