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When I mention EAS, then of course I mean the weighted total of all sound carriers that Chartmasters has determined here, including videos of course.
Indeed, Mick Jagger hasn't sold much as a solo artist that he already has priority here to be analyzed. But 5M EAS would be a bit too little in my opinion, especially since his 1985 debut She's The Boss plus its singles and his duets "State Of Shock" with The Jacksons and "Dancing In The Street" with David Bowie have been commercially successful both in North America and Europe on their respective releases. Without really having a clue, I'd put his solo stuff at between 10M and 15M EAS.
At the moment (09/22/2023) Phil Collins has 152,561,000 EAS, but when I sum up all of his studio albums plus Orphan I only get 151,261,000 EAS.
How can this be possible?
Thank you.
Hi Landischorsch,
It's due to orphan songs. These ones aren't automatically updated like studio albums, as there are no ID/Object to link to on Spotify to know how they evolve through time. In the top artist list, the Orphan is extrapolated based on the artist total evolution (which isn't perfect obviously, but by default it's the best we can do), hence the calculation suggests that if updated the Orphan line would be 1.3m higher by now.
We now have Phil Collins' solo and Genesis' EAS. Beyond that, what I'd really be interested in are the EAS from Flaming Youth and Brand X, the two other bands in which Phil Collins was a full member. I know that both Flaming Youth and Brand X haven't sold that much, because both bands have never been commercial forces. But only with all these four formations Phil Collins' total EAS as a main performer can be shown.
Of course I guess that both Flaming Youth and Brand X will probably never be on the agenda to be selected for individual articles. And I'm also aware that updating Phil Collins' sales analysis is not necessary at the moment, because since this article was created (in 2018) Phil Collins neither has released anything relevant nor has he sold much during the last five years.
But if this article were to be updated anytime in the future then I'd deeply like to encourage you guys to include his other two bands (Flaming Youth and Brand X) EAS at least with a side note.
Thank you.
Unnecessary imo, he wasn't even the leader in these bands and as you said they sold almost nothing.
He wasn't the leader/band's boss of Genesis either (which was Tony Banks more or less). In Flaming Youth he was the full-time drummer/backing vocalist and additionally the lead vocalist of a quarter to third of all tracks. In Brand X he was the drummer on all albums up to 1982 – except Masques (1978) as well as partly Product (1979) and Do They Hurt? (1980) – while he was the solely lead singer on the few tracks with vocals. In the UK their first album Unorthodox Behaviour (1976) has sold about 100,000 pure units.
Brand X have their core of fans around the world, especially in North America and Europe, who have purchased their catalog over the decades. Surely, their fan base is certainly much smaller than that of the prog phase of Genesis, but Brand X are often mentioned when talking about the jazz-rock of the 1970s.
Basically, I would never expect this article to list all the recordings on which Phil Collins was merely a session musician. But of both bands he was a full member the way he was with Genesis. Therefore, when looking at his entire career, it would be quite relevant regarding his EAS.
Not sure what you mean about Tony Banks, Phil Collins was the singer and co-songwriter, Genesis was essentially known as "Phil Collins' band" at their peak with obvious similarities between their albums and his solo albums.
He was basically just a drummer in these other bands whose sales are insignificant. It'd make much more sense to study the solo careers of every band studied so far (Beatles, Queen, Stones...etc), and even that seems like a lot of work for not much.
From documentaries I've seen and things I've read, Banks seemed to be the one that pushed the band into the musical styles, choices etc that he felt right. It might have appeared that to the public that it was Phil Collins band, but behind the scenes Banks seemed to be the one holding the reins.
Of course Genesis never had an official band leader/boss, but even Phil Collins was quoted that Tony Banks was the publicly rather inconspicuous but internally definite band's leader. At the moment I don't know if bringing the term Genesis as "Phil Collins' band" is your personal opinion or if you're just claiming it's what the majority thinks. Because such thesis is absolutely absurd and untrue! If you were more familiar with Genesis' history/catalog/legacy and each member's share of composition, then you'd never state such inanity, even if fast-paced MTV kiddies like to equate Phil Collins = Genesis.
Whether sales of Flaming Youth and Brand X being insignificant, that's more in the eye of each individual beholder. I personally think those sales should be additionally listed to understand Phil Collins' total EAS. As I said that doesn't mean, that I expect it to be listed in the near future. Someone else can have a different opinion.
"If you were more familiar with Genesis’ history/catalog/legacy and each member’s share of composition, then you’d never state such inanity, even if fast-paced MTV kiddies like to equate Phil Collins = Genesis."
How polite and respectful, I can see now why you're so upset at you-know-who for using insults...
Anyway, I can quote you dozens of articles describing Phil Collins as the "leader of Genesis", after he left their next album sold 1m copies (vs 14m for the previous one) because indeed he was Genesis in the eyes of the public, which is what matters here (popularity). And I know about the band and their "share of composition", I said he was a co-songwriter in my previous post.
Could you post links to those quotes? I'd like to see them, because that goes completely against what I'd taken from watching documentaries and interviews with the actual members.
OK, please no offense. What I wrote was that if such term as "Genesis was Phil Collins' band" is your personal opinion, then you may not have a sufficient idea of Genesis, what fast-paced MTV kiddies always thought. That's what I said to you! I never said something like "You are like those fast-paced MTV kiddies."
Analord, I've followed some the discussions you've been involved to and several like Martin or NikWag reactions let conclude you accuse them things they never did. I don't want to clash with you or anyone here, but please read carefully before accusing me that I insulted you.
Regarding to your articles describing "Phil Collins as the leader of Genesis"... I vaguely remember a discussion with you about the creditability of music magazines or “music critics”. We came to the conclusion then that we both had different opinions on that, didn't we? To bring it home again, I don't give a damn what is written in any articles by so-called music journalists because they are absolutely irrelevant to me. If you've forgotten my reasoning behind my opinion of her, re-read my old posts (I think it was in the MJ discussion).
And another point. Indeed, I can imagine you've studied some songwriting credits included on Genesis releases. But that's not what I meant when I said, being familiar with member's share of composition. Even when there stands "Written by Banks/Collins/Rutherford." most elements of the music have mostly come from Banks/Rutherford, especially Banks. Collins wrote some lyrics, was responsible for a huge part of arrangements and his most important role in Genesis:
With his visual and his vocal/drumming presence, Phil Collins accelerated Genesis music to commercial success.
You named the comparison in sales between We Can't Dance (1991) and ...Calling All Stations... (1997). Have you ever compared both albums directly? If yes, then you should have noticed the common things: same co-producer (Nick Davis), same kind of recording equipment, similar harmonic and instrumental structure. But the difference was, there was no Phil Collins with his characteristic appearance anymore to bring it to audience. But that doesn't mean that it was his band or anything like that. And if anyone claims both Genesis and Phil Collins can be confused, then he has no idea of anything or is just a fast-paced MTV kiddie as I said.
With such a view I am not alone. And believe me, I guess you won't find such description in any of your dozens of "quality journalism" articles.
Hello MJD!
Why have Phil Collins' streams been lowered downwards? Previously he had over 7,000,000 EAS and now suddenly only 6,625,000.
Several artist have reduced streams how Metallica or Celine Dion. Both lost about 2 milions.
New ratios have been developed, based on how the market has developed over the past few years and have now been applied to all artists. So, as you are seeing, artists totals have went up or down, after yesterdays update.
