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I think the figures about Togheter Again are pretty low. If we look only to certifications they already collect the 3.2 million copies. MJD was very very conservative for this. But definitly 6 million is to high.
I'm sorry. If Billboard and ARIA aren't reliable sources for sales (lmao), then I don't know what in your world is. The six million figure is official. From the certifications alone it's more than what your site claims.
@KantClark You have to remember the single was released in 1997 and 1998. It managed to chart on ARIA end of the year lists three years in a row. ARIA tracks down global sales. Billboard tracks US sales.
Hi Tonk!
Misquoting grossly isn't the way to go. You showed nothing from Billboard / ARIA proving 6 million global sales. All you did prove is 70,000 Australian units.
You should be careful with Wikipedia, especially on pages related to divas where fans invent a lot of fake figures. Together Again isn't Platinum in the US. It hasn't sold 804k in the UK either, instead 741k. It isn't Platinum in Japan, instead it hasn't charted insite the Top 100 at all. Lastly, by 1997 most countries had already stopped to release physical singles, that includes Canada, continental Asia, Latin America and Eastern Europe. Basically, the US, Australia, the UK and a few continental Europe countries represeneted 100% of the global market.
I'll cross-check Hernan's figures (he is the one building physical singles figures) but if you expect 6 million you are setting up yourself for a huge disappointment.
Tonk, ARIA is the Australian equivalent of the RIAA, it doesn't track global sales at all.
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=1Q0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA75&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
Together Again sold 800k during 1998 in US. Definitly it didn't reach the 1 million copies.
Hi KantClark!
Actually, it has! The single was released in December 1997, going straigth into the Top 10 of the Sales chart. Hanboo reported 1,224,000 units scanned. Hernan likely missed that post since he assigned 950,000 units for the song in the US, which was logical considering 1998 SS sales / the lack of Platinum award, but truth is that the song sold more. He also understated sligthly I Get Lonely (set at 900k, scanned at 928k). I'll have a round of checks / fixes as soon as I'm done with Elvis!
Bojan, what kind of non sense are you talking about? First of all whether you write your own songs or not, doesn't take your credibility as an artist at all. A singer should sing and perform first, if you can write your own songs it is good but not mandatory. Barbra Streisand, The Beattles, Whitney Houston doesn't right their own songs. But please dont tell me shit such as Janet is a better accomplished artist then them, because she's not. It is facts that Britney is bigger than her in Europe, Asia, Latin America, Canada, Australia. Just look at their album sales and only someone with no knowledge of simple Mathematics and numbering would say Janet is the bigger artist at their peak.
"How many of her albums and songs are on all-time lists of the best albums?"
Baby One More Time was one of the top 20 best selling physical singles, in which none of Janet's singles made the list btw.
https://chartmasters.org/2017/10/cspc-most-successful-artists-ever-data-collector/4/
"Do you really think that kids are familiar with their work? The most of them aren’t, and that’s normal, that will happen to every pop star sooner or later. However, in popular shows like “Dance Dance Dance” and “Your Face Sounds Familiar” Janet is everywhere: Hungary, The Netherlands, Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Italy, Spain, UK, Slovakia… Which only proves her legendary status even in Europe. And honestly, I never met anyone here in Eastern Europe that didn’t know at least on Janet song."
This is another laughable jokes from you. Just look at her youtube views. Among all of her biggest singles, none of them reaches 16 million views on youtube. We speaking about Britney's Baby One More Time, Oops I Did It Again, Toxic, all reaching above 200 million views and two of them reaching 300 million views. And Mariah, Whitney, Celine, Madonna easily could've reach 60 million on average with their singles. Her streaming sales are terrible. Nobody's listening to her music anymore these days, and all of her songs are much2 more forgotten than the other divas u mentioned. Dont get me wrong, she achieved huge success. But No. 1 she was never a massive global superstar. No. 2 she is not as big as the other divas u mentioned. And btw, I would love to see where you get your facts when you say she has better touring results than Madonna. You must be delusional to say that.
Jazmine,
Don't even bother. He is clueless. So many Janet fans get so butthurt when people point out she was NEVER a global superstar the way Madonna, Whitney, Mariah and Celine were. And in typical defensive fashion, they will not use any data to back up their argument. Listen--I like Janet and her influence is actually huge compared to low sales. That's a compliment. But let's not make her something she clearly is not.
Your lack of data from Africa do not make your claims the most accurate figure too. I mean you I do believe that your figures are low for many black arists. It's not like albums/singles are not sold in these countries.
Hi Edward!
Have you ever been to Africa? I was living there until last summer and NO, albums/singles are not sold in these countries. There is no music retailers in most, no music industry organization, no labels implanted. At best a few FNACs are here and there filled with unsold copies from Europe at an heavily expensive price (higher than in Europe because of shipment costs). Apart from SA, there has been a few legal sales in Nigeria and in Zimbabwe at some point, but numbers were very low (a few thousands) even for top sellers. Just go to Discogs and you will see which countries have got a release. I barely went to see for Control right now, and SA is simply the only country from Africa where it came out.
Even in many Asian countries piracy was rampant back in the 80s, 90s early 00s. Im pretty sure piracy was even a much larger problems in African countries considering that there is loterally no music organizations there. I dont think sales in Africa would've made it such a big deal despite black singers huge fan base there.
"60,000 copies of the song have been downloaded since we started counting in 2005 – not bad to say the song came out a whole eight years earlier and sold a whopping 747,000 on physical formats. With 4.1 million streams, it's also Ms. Jackson if you're Nasty's most streamed song."
Together Again has sold 747,000 physical copies + 60,000 downloads since 2005 = 807k in the UK
Straight from the UK Official Charts Company. Will you be doing an update on Janet's total CSPC anytime in the future?
Greetings,
I am interested to know how you got the figure 375K for TVR in Germany. The album had a very healthy chart run. I would assume at least 400k.
5-7-6-10-13-14-29-39-44-36-21-11-6-5-6-7-11-10-12-12-15-21-25-29-30-32-34-38-39-39-48-53-68-85-89-91-99
Also your numbers are off from the leaked Soundscan reports from May 2018.
janet.
Chartmasters: 8,000,000
Nielsen Soundscan: 8,156,073
Design Of A Decade
Chartmasters: 4,000,000
Nielsen Soundscan: 4,766,247
The Velvet Rope
Chartmasters: 3,800,000
Nielsen Soundscan: 4,089,764
All For You
Chartmasters: 3,300,000
Nielsen Soundscan: 3,571,296
Damita Jo
Chartmasters: 1,050,000
Nielsen Soundscan: 1,100,395
20 Y.O.
Chartmasters: 700,000
Nieslen Soundscan: 777,168
Discipline
Chartmasters: 480,000
Nieslen Soundscan: 590,778
Number Ones/The Best
Chartmasters: 600,000 (worldwide)
Nielsen Soundscan: 1,548,396 SPS
Icon: Best Of Number Ones
Chartmasters: 100,000 (worldwide)
Nielsen Soundscan: 447,261 SPS
Unbreakable
Chartmasters: 275,000
Nielsen Soundscan: 358,633
-Thank you for everything you do!! You make finding sales so much easier. Much respect 🙂
Hi Bret!
1. MJD used a formula that helps convert chart runs into sales for most markets taking into account the market size and the period. In this case, TVR chart run in Germany is converted to 354K based on the formula. Bear in mind that this formula reflects shipped units rather than "soundscan-like" sales unit. Add in catalog sales after the chart run and the figure of 375K is reached.
Although TVR was released in Q4 of 1997, suggesting consistently solid sales, let's not forget that during the resurgence of the album into the Top 10, it was already Q1 (Jan-Mar) of 1998, a period of relatively lower sales, which would explain the lower than expected sales for TVR.
2. The numbers you've quoted for Soundscan are SPS units, which combines tracked soundscan sales of albums, downloads (divided by 10, excluding ringtones) and streams (divided by 1500, includes both YT and Spotify-like streaming services such as Apple Music and Spotify).
However, for the numbers you've quoted for "Chartmasters", not only does it exclude downloads and streams, it is the number of shipped copies (includes both physical and digital), which is extrapolated by tracked retail sales by Soundscan + other avenues of sales (eg. Music clubs, underestimation of Soundscan for certain albums, especially in the early 90's when its system isn't as comprehensive as later on.
The reason Chartmaster's numbers for Janet's US shipped album sales excludes the streaming sales is because there is no per country breakdown of those data, it is looked at as a whole worldwide album equivalents while the leaked Soundscan + club sales data is focused on the US only. And even at that, the leaked SPS numbers for the "Number Ones/The Best" album compilation puts it at over 1.5 million in the USA alone, while even if you add all the album sale equivalents the specific songs from that compilation generates according to the (outdated) Spotify numbers Chartmasters has for them, they wouldn't even add up to over 1 million SPS worldwide. The same could be said for the "Icon" compilation too but that might be considered double counting since every single song (except for one: "Nothing") on that compilation is already on the "Number Ones/The Best" compilation.
Either way, it's been nearly two years since Chartmasters has done the initial April 2017 post analysis for Janet and since those two years these things have happened so an update is probably needed.
Janet released "Made For Now" which sold 20,000 downloads and had 3.7 million streams first week in the USA according to Billboard.
Currently it has over 55 million streams on youtube and over 15 million streams on Spotify (Original + Latin Version), plus it has charted on a few other international digital/download sales chart (Australia, Spain, Canada, UK & France)
The leaked May 2018 Soundscan data showing a number of digital download sales on certain songs and certain album compilations in the USA being higher than what Chartmasters estimated for them, some even at worldwide.
Her Spotify streaming numbers have increased significantly across her entire discography on there since Chartmaster's post, plus possibly on other streaming platforms too.
The song sold 5 million across Europe alone. This was documented decades ago from European sources officially. I don't care what the certifications show because they are often grossly understated, as most of Janet's certifications are. I'm sorry but a lot of your figures are just incorrect and even the Soundscan numbers in the US show your numbers are incorrect.
Colosoul, Janet is uncertified but not that much. For instance, Janet sold more than 8 million, whereas it is certified for 6 million.
Correction: It sold 8 million in THE US but is certified there for 6 million.
So a difference of 2 million copies is not that much?? I completely disagree. She has two albums available for diamond certifications yet both are certified at 6 million. Mariah has albums that sold less than janet. and RN that are certified diamond and RN is close to 9 by now which sold more than sold more than some Mariah Carey albums. If she is that undercertified in the US, then I can only imagine how undercertified she is in Europe. The fact is, Tother Again sold over 5 million copies in Europe and this was documented by multiple European sources 2 decades ago. It's the biggest hit of her career. His figures are just wrong. No one outside the industry knows how much these artists sold at the end of the day.
She does not have 2 albums with sales above 10 million albums. And janet album chart runs all over Europe has been mediocre. She isnt a global seller. She is local. There are many supposedly documented sources that says a lot of stuff many of them are fake however.
How is she local If she is one of the best selling black female artist in Europe and Asia?
Limiting it to just black female artists is kind of limiting her competition. She wasnt even bringing in closely the no of records that Whitney, Mariah, Celine, Madonna, Britney, Barbra produced. And even in Black female categories she isnt even among the very best seller. There is off course Whitney and Mariah, and lets not forget about Beyonce and Rihanna. If it wasnt for the brutal market dropped they suffered, im pretty sure both of them would have out sell Janet's non US market sales too. Furthermore, selling 500k - 1 million albums in Asia and 1-2 million albums in Europe really isnt a big deal. Many other big global superstars easily outsell her at their peak.
