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Exactly. Thriller outstreams Greatest hits easily on Spotify 3 to 1 but we are supposed to believe GH is ahead of Thriller by 5 million units?
Here's the current streaming numbers for Thriller and GH:
WBSS 49 869144
BBM 12 580 637
GIM 30943114
Thriller 135 803 854
Beat it 243 963 367
Billie Jean 401252 104
Human Nature 43 597 2012
PYT 114 426 988
Lady in my life 12 639 786
1 045 076 206
Take it Easy 101 447 814
Witchy Woman 16 438 094
Lying Eyes 30 072 831
Already Gone 12 933 760
Desperado 42 014 049
One of These Nights 51 033 625
Tequilla Sunrise 19 840 149
Take it to the Limit 21 305 267
Peaceful Easy Feeling 27 476 265
The Best of my love 13 282 522
335 844 376
On YouTube MJ is waaay ahead of Eagles.
Current data from YouTube:
views between Jul 22, 2018 -- Aug 18, 2018
Michael Jackson 138,816,594
Eagles 7,487,470
Pandora Deezer same thing. MJ is way ahead.
Pandora
Michael Jackson 27M Listeners
Eagles 13M Listeners
Deezer
Michael Jackson 8,610,705 fans
Eagles 336,063 fans
So where did Eagles's 9 million extra unit come from? Thriller 25 was at the top of the catalog chart for 11 weeks in 2008 and sold about 660 000 and that made it the best selling catalog album that year. But we are supposed to believe Eagles GH sold 750 000 average per year for 12 years and we never saw it at the top of the chart? Well it was there for one week in 2016 when Glenn Frey died.
i dont wanna sound redundant, but how on earth can their album outdo Thriller. It sells doesnt sell more and Michael's streams on all platforms are multiple times bigger then theirs and they count more since streaming is getting equal weighting in the RIAA than sales from what I know.
This. Pop acts dont last very long in the US. If they want a long and successful catalog its best if the work ww.
It would seem like the real reason "Their Greatest Hits" went from 29 million to 38 million may mostly be due to sales that weren't accounted for since they last audited in 2006 (as far as I know), though in this site, they have "Greatest Hits" selling the same amount of albums in the U.S. as "Thriller" (30.2 million to Thriller's 30.4 million). Also there is no "Hotel California" in "Greatest Hits" so I don't know if there were that many single sales based off "Take It to the Limit" and "One of These Nights" and as mentioned, their streaming numbers being way lower than MJ's. So one has to wonder, how did they reach this conclusion? Same with "Hotel California". Apparently if it's believed, classic rock music is very popular in the streaming era but that still leaves more questions unanswered. I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle and I do expect Epic/Legacy to respond to this by having the MJ estate audit Thriller shipments/sales. My guess is Asylum is probably shipping the Eagles albums, hence why there's a 38x diamond stamp on "Their Greatest Hits".
Hi guys!
I have seen the RIAA updates as well as your comments. I may post an article about these awards, but here are some points that need to be clarified:
- there is no bias or so on RIAA certifications, they are legit as far as their rules are concerned
- obviously, Hotel California and GH 1971-1975 haven't got that high thanks to streaming and downloads, at best they gained 1 Plat each from there
- 'new' sales can only come from older units first audited / allowed now
- Cracked Rear View already gained 5xP a few months ago, certified by Rhino too
- there is a 'risk' to see remaining WEA (Warner, Elektra, Atlantic) albums explode soon too, this includes Led Zep IV and Rumours
- while the new 'sales' have now be allowed, there is no guarantee that they are 'valid' (they can be gift or so)
Hope it clears some doubts!
The facts are coming... Fake news exposed!
Digging deeper into the realm of RIAA magic, consider the treatment afforded the Eagles’ Their Greatest Hits 1971–1975.
Originally certified in 1976 as part of the promotional thrust around Platinum designation, 1971–1975 was inexplicably re-certified twelve times platinum in 1990, and in 1995, an inconceivable twenty-two times.
This ballooned to twenty-six times in 1999, with a final certification of twenty-nine times platinum in 2006 — a broadly publicized crest, as it meant the compilation had overtaken Michael Jackson’s Thriller as the best-selling album of all time.
According to the RIAA, Their Greatest Hits 1971–1975 shipped seventeen million copies between 1990 and 2006. Yet according to SoundScan, over the same period, it sold just over five million.
Given that between 2006 and 2010, it barely scanned half a million — and that figure includes digital downloads — we can see that not only was the RIAA on a mission of intent rather than accuracy in trumpeting this album’s significance, they have totally disregarded widely-available statistics in the process.
Even under the RIAA system, there were twelve million copies outstanding — potential returns — to count against the Eagles at the moment Hits was certified twenty-nine times platinum, and supposedly surpassed Thriller"
Soundscan have the real sales for the record, and that prove there are something real wrong with the RIAA system.
I think we should remember that the RIAA have with the Eagles a long love story, the first album RIAA have given the platinium certification, the year of their creation, was this compilation of the Eagles; in some way that have helped them to promote each others (sorry for my english).
There are also the new magical numbers for another Eagles album, Hotel California, who was at 16 millions there are one year ago, now 26 millions; we should look of the real sales with Soundscan Nielsen.
For the comparaison, Thriller album during the peak of Michael Jackson area, have sold juste one millions copies between 1985 and 1990 according the RIAA, after two years of 20 millions copies sold, that just a joke, and that not just for Michael Jackson, it seem the Bee Gees Saturday Night fever don't have been certified since...the early 80's in the USA
And the people and media are ignoring the facts and spreading FAKE NEWS...
The Eagles: Greatest Hits 71-75 by RIAA:
February 1976
(1,000,000 (US) albums sold)
1976 - August 1990 (US) 11,000,000 more sales!!!??? (800,000 (US) sales each year!!!!????)
12 million (US) albums sold!!!???
1990 - December 1993 (US) 2,000,000 more sales!!!??? (666,666 (US) sales each year!!!!????)
14 million (US) albums sold!!!???
1993 - June 1995 (US) 8,000,000 more sales!!!?? (5,052,000 (US) sales each year!!!!???? (19 Months!!!))
22 million (US) albums sold!!!???
REAL sales (Soundscan) between December 1993 - June 1995 was 919.000 sales (515,000 (US) sales each year!!!!???? (19 Months!!!))
the RIAA officialy can not explain why it was certified 22 times. they can not explain where the 8 mio sales coming from.
1995 - November 1999 (US) 4,000,000 more sales!!!?? (1,000,000 (US) sales each year!!!!????)
26 million (US) albums sold!!!???
November 1999 RIAA certified it 26times. it unseated "Thriller" at the top of the RIAA's all-time ranking by the media. 1 month before the millenium. Sure ...
1999 - 2006 (US) 3,000,000 more sales!!!?? (430,000 (US) sales each year!!!!????)
29 million (US) albums sold!!!???
2006 - 2009 (US) 404,000 more sales!!!?? (135,000 (US) sales each year!!!!????)
29 million (US) albums sold!!!???
2009 - 2018 (US) 9,000,000 more sales!!!?? (1,000,000 (US) sales each year!!!!????)
38 million (US) albums sold!!!???
They just lied and FAKED the sales. Proven. These sales are impossible!!!
Eagles and RIAA should come clear why they are clearly faking numbers to ovetake Thriller. Soundscan does not support these outlandish numbers. Nor does streaming on the big streaming platform. They cannot explain how they found 9 million copies since 2006 when Eagles was not even in the Top 50 on the year end catalog charts.
Now would you explain how the Eagles could sell 9 million between 2006 and 2018 without constantly being in the top 20-30 on Billboard 200 and leading the catalog chart more than just once during that period?
Thriller 25 sold about 668 000 in 2008 and that made it the best selling catalog album in that year. It was at the top of the catalog chart for 11 weeks.
If Eagles had indeed sold 750 000 average per year how come it was not leading that catalog chart way more often?
These numbers are fake. And this is not the first tiime RIAA pulled huge numbers of of nowhere for Eagles. They did it in the 90s too when all of a sudden it jumped from 19 million to 29 million. Come on.
Shame on the media for promoting this facade and knocking down Thriller which has REAL Soundscan data to back up its certifications.
The agenda is obvious.
Billie Jean has more streams on Spotify than the entire EAgles album put together.
SoundScan shows Thriller outsold Eagles GH between 1991 and 2018. Look at Billboard catalog charts between 2006 and 2017.
Thriller is there 7 years twice in the Top 50. Eagles was not even in the top 50 except in 2016..
Eagles's certifications are not supported by any data. How could they sell 9 million since 2006 and not top the catalog chart even one year???
There are the facts and numbers, and yes, the RIAA agenda.
Read the previous comments!
Just compare this, some fake "methodology" from RIAA and how they have forgotten the album "Grease", this article is dated to 2006:
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/60098/ask-billboard
You see, it's not just about Michael Jackson, but that reminds me how Thriller between 1984 and 1990 have supposed to have sold just one million copy according the RIAA, the same thing now for "Grease", fans of the soundtrack if I refer to wikipedia, add 8 millions from RIAA and 6 millions from Soundscan to have 14 millions for the USA, but like Thriller, the sales between 1984 and 91, are lost forever, and it was very big years for both albums!!!
Hi Brandon,
Charts & sales is a jigsaw much harder to understand that it seems. You haven't prove a thing there - your message is full of notable inaccuracies. When we rant about spreading fake news, the least we can do is check the real facts and report them correctly. These elements about music clubs would be a great start.
How can you explain this, the FACT: the Eagles Greatest Hits Soundscan sales from the last 11 Years:
2007, May
5,054,548
2007, November
5,125,000
2007, December 8
5,149,433
2008, January 26
5,199,012
2010, June 6
5,374,694
2010, October 3
5,392,833
2010, November 6
5,395,835
2012, September 1
5,510,310
2012, October 27
5,517,347
2013, March 2
5,537,129
2013, March 16
5,543,596
2013, March 30
5,554,416
2013, June 15
5,585,933
2013, July 13
5,595,541
2014, April
5,690,000
2014, November 1
5,749,765
2016, October 29
6,103,000
2017, January 7
6,124,000
2017, January 14
6,132,000
2017, June 3
6,174,000
2017, August 12
6,194,000
2017, Year End
6,228,000
6,228,000 since 1991 (= 27 Years, = 230.000 sales each year)
1,173,452 from May 2007 to Dezember 2017 (= 128 Months, = 110.000 sales each year)
Hi Brandon!
That's a fact - it scanned 1,2 million since its previous RIAA cert. It doesn't go beyond that though. New sales are only one way of achieving new RIAA certs, the other two being newly eligible sales and previously unaudited units. Nobody stated the album moved 9 million units since 2007. It's a given that it hasn't, which doesn't necessarily mean the new cert isn't legit.
I'm completely bemused by those two most recent Eagles certifications and the sheer scale of the rises. When Warners applied for those huge shipment rises in the 1990's
Eagles - Eagles Greatest Hits: 14m (14/12/93) to 22m (05/06/95)
Eagles - Hotel California: 10m (12/08/94) to 14m (05/06/95)
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV: 11m (18/12/92) to 16m (26/01/96)
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV: 17m (25/11/97) to 21m (15/11/99)
AC/DC - Back In Black: 12m (26/01/96) to 16m (12/11/97)
it seemed a mixture of soundscans, clubs, the allowance of freebies, military bases etc and "found/lost" shipments, was the answer. This time I'm struggling to find the answer, as the addition of physicals, downloads & streams, just does not seem enough to rise them 9m & 10m respectively. Seems like more "found/lost" sales.
That’s not even remotely true. Michael sold well for years and his music is still downloaded and streamed. The difference is the Eagles, and many rock and country artists, lend more to an American audience. Michael made a name for himself as a solo artist when rock music was huge in the ‘70s. Michael’s six adult studios albums outsold the Eagles globally. That’s not counting his childhood solo work with Motown, compilations, or posthumous records. He probably gives them real competition even in the US if you are only looking at studio albums.
Please don’t compare Michael and Madonna. People do that all the time and they aren’t really that similar except they’re both popular and had their biggest moments in the ‘80s. She doesn’t match him in terms of sales or impact or talent in my opinon. But MJ does compete with the Beatles, Elvis, and any other great you want to name in regards to critical acclaim, sales, chart performance, career longevity, and cultural impact.
Michael Jackson and Madonna are definitely comparable. Michael was super2 huge, but he released very few albums. Madonna was not nearly as big as Michael at her peak, but she definitely have more longevity than Michael and she beat all other rock stars except for the Beatles and Elvis. Madonna started her career, far weaker than Michael. But she has catch up with him. Stop trying to discredit her achievement. Let us not even forget the fact that Madonna is still alive and she is the queen of reinvention. Who knows she might have another comeback in the coming years, and who knows she might be able to beat Michael's CSPC one day. The fact is she is still the 4th best selling artist male or female or group, and she easily beat out almost all the rock acts in history. She is has a bigger global appeal than most rock acts, who derived a bigger portion of their sales through the US markets. She is in the same league as MJ.
I wasn’t trying to discredit Madonna. She’s obviously successful; the numbers speak for themselves. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words to say they aren’t comparable, but I stand by the statement that her career doesn’t match his just because she beat others. That’s not an insult. He’s always had a longer reach. What you mentioned about him having fewer albums is exactly my point. His music made a bigger splash and continues to sell. That distinction isn’t just between him and Madonna, it’s him and everyone. That doesn’t take away from her status as the “queen of reinvention.” She might surpass him in sales or CSPC one day because she’s still making music, not because the music had more lasting effects.
Their longevity is also different because he started his career so early. He probably still exceeds her at this point, but her career as an adult making new albums does exceed his because she’s still making music and obviously he’s not. Once again, it was a poor choice of words to say they aren’t comparable, but there are differences. She is the biggest worldwide sensation besides MJ, the Beatles, and Elvis, but there is a big gap between her and them.
If those music club "sales" were in fact free and dirt cheap copies, which is why RIAA didn't include them before 1994 and why SoundScan still doesn't include them, can we call them sales?
But how could they just miss millions of units through repeated certification and suddenly find them?
And why is that happening to Rhino albums? Greatest Hits was certified many times before 2006. Missing 7+ million units doesn't sound too plausible.
Hi Vulcan!
It's not true that all these sales were free/dirt cheap. The subscription offer was ridiculously cheap (often 12 CDs for $1) but then you were forced to buy 2 albums per month during at least 1 year at prices often higher than on regular retailers (as high as $18 per album in the 90s). If you do the maths, at the end of the subscription period that's 36 CDs for 1+15 (to be conservative) * 24 = $361 => $10 per album. Columbia House alone peaked at over $1 billion gross you they obviously haven't made that much money giving away records.
Soundscan doesn't include them again not because of the price but barely because of the technology. They scan bar codes, these codes appear only for products sold on retailers, so not when a record was purchased through direct marketing. These products were also sold directly buy the record club (like Columbia / BMG) instead of the label, they were pressing themselves the copies, which is why the industry used to massively ignore them until 1994. Even when reporting global sales, they often excluded them before that date simply because these sales weren't controlled by them, they were selling licensing agreements rather than units to these clubs.
Because they are an industry, an official organisation financed by all music labels, why would they be biased for one specific artist / label? It's key to understand that artists are paid their royalties as per sales. If Rhino made up these sales and certified these near 20m (combined) sales without grossing a peny, they would still need to pay at least $100 million to band members, producers, etc, of copies that do not even exist. The only possible way is to sign an agreement with everyone involved saying "hey guys, let's invent these sales for marketing purpose, sign these so you agree there no royalties on them" but even that is way too much of a conspiracy theory for me!
Hello MJD and team.
I'm not sure if this has been clarified/investigated yet (I see there has been some discussion in the comments). I was just wondering if the huge increase in the 'Greatest Hits 1971-1975' and 'Hotel California' album certification by the RIAA was considered legitimate by this website and if so how it might affect EAS/ASR for The Eagles?
I'm not a particularly big Eagles fan do I don't have a 'dog in the fight' as it were. Just curious as to what your views/intentions were regarding this is all!?!
Thanks!
