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I find the lyrics quite funny and fair play to them for saying whatever they want, but I just can't get with that annoying delivery of hers and how she sounds.
Their early stuff "wasn't selling well on catalogue" ? I'd really like to know what evidence you're basing this on...
And remember that the original question was why does Sabbath's music has more longevity than Deep Purple's, i.e. why are their classic albums (70-75 + 80) more popular, these obscure post-Ozzy albums that no one has ever cared about are totally irrelevant.
It wasn't exactly that, it was "It’s strange that time has been kinder to Sabbath than Purple, who in the 70s were easily the more successful of the two"
The fact that their albums spent minimal weeks on the Midline chart in the US and only in 82 and early 83.
The fact that their early albums in the US didn't receive significant increases in certification in 1986 when they were all reappraised, with only Paranoid achieving a Multi Platinum award and Vol 4, SBS and BS never being re-certified after that 86 cert.
Again in the US, Sabotage only going Gold in 1997. Paranoid taking 9 years (86-95) to get from 3P to 4P and MOR taking 15 years (86-01) to go from 1P to 2P.
Going forward to the 90s in the US, we have Soundscan figures for those early albums and while Paranoid doesn't do too badly (not great), the rest are pretty poor. These are their numbers from 1991 to 2006;
* Black Sabbath - 393,000
* Paranoid - 1,427,000
* Master of Reality - 352,000
* Vol. 4 - 260,000
* Sabbath Bloody Sabbath - 293,000
* Sabotage - 223,000
Looking at the UK, it's a similar story. In the 1980s none of their albums re entered the UK album charts, except for Paranoid which done 2 weeks in 1980.
In 2013 the BPI allowed auto certification based on sales reported from 1994 and their first 4 albums which were all pre 1973 and as such not allowed to be certified to that point were only awarded;
Black Sabbath went Gold 100,000
Paranoid went went Gold 100,000
Master of Reality went Silver 60,000
Vol 4 went Silver 60,000
Both Sabotage and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath were awarded Silver certs in 1975 and as such would need to have shifted at least Gold, to be awarded a new auto cert in 2013 and neither managed that.
And finally, the fact that even today the majority of those early albums still do not have amazing totals in the majority of countries and do not look like they have added significantly to their total over the years, with the possible exception of Paranoid, which even then does not exactly look like it's had stellar catalogue sales, given it is by far their go to album.
"I’d really like to know what evidence you’re basing this on…". To flip that back to you, as you seem to be disparaging my presumption. I'd really like to know what evidence you are basing your disparaging comment on?
Impressive numbers.
Also glad to see that you guys have a Latin ratio for streaming. It would be nice if you guys had a similar ratio for US-urban based acts. Although it is unlikely that the heavy hitters, such as Lil Baby and NBA YoungBoy, would ever be studied on this site, I do think it is needed for artists like Drake. Applying the current standard ratio would give albums like Future Nostalgia with astronomical Spotify streams miles more Apple Music streams than Lil Baby and co albums, even though that is not the case; Summer Walker's 'Over It' was the most streamed female album on Apple Music WW in 2020, even though it ended the year with less than 800 million on Spotify compared to Nostalgia's +3 billion.
I get it. Here it's something generational... young people listen only to reggaeton/trap. People older than 30 Y.O. usually don't understand it and say music from the (insert the decade you want, 80s, 90s, etc) was better, they played instruments, they sang, blah blah blah...
What I meant is that here, that music is everywhere that it becomes background music even if you don't like it. It's massive.
Yes, I think the streaming numbers for some of those Latin artists demonstrates just how outstandingly popular it is.
Music wise, it's not so much a generational thing for me (although that does slightly factor into it) and I have no issues with artists who don't play "proper instruments", as I love a lot of techno, rave, ambient, trance, EDM etc.
Also, maybe the generational thing swings both ways, as it doesn't seem as though those artists, given their lyrics, visual imagery etc says much about or to older generations, whereas artists like say Adele or Coldplay are more fluid and neutral (and always have been) and their lyrics and visual imagery resonates with people of all ages, both young and old.
For me, it's probably more a geographical/language and style/genre thing, as well as preferring straight forward singing (in English), than rapping/talking.
Personally, I don't go for that, "music was better in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s" thing, I just prefer music from that period, I don't class it as better.
"Disparaging comment" ? Relax dude, I literally just asked for evidence...
Soundscan numbers for Deep Purple (2006) :
Machine Head - 325k
Made In Japan - 125k
In Rock - 45k
So about 5-6 times less than Sabbath, in the UK it's close when it comes to studio albums but Purple's compilations sold less.
If "Sabbaths star had fallen considerably” I guess Purple's star was buried deep into the ground 😉
Anyway, I totally disagree with this idea that Sabbath had somehow become irrelevant in the 80s and 90s, especially with Ozzy freaking Osborne being highly successful at the time and as I said tons of famous bands praising their music.
And whether you like it or not, they are considered to be the first metal band, which I think explain to a large extent their better longevity compared to Deep Purple.
"I’d really like to know what evidence you’re basing this on", comes across as "I think you're taking crap and I don't believe you, so prove it".
I've got no agenda with this, I'm just stating what I believe to be true and for the most part what is true, you seem be coming at this as a fan of Sabbath and trying to defend them.
You wanted evidence about Sabbaths catalogue sales not exactly being fantastic and I provided it. You clearly didn't like the evidence I provided, so now you're giving it some kind of childish "well at least they are better than Purples" and turning it into some kind of competition between the two. The point was about Sabbaths catalogue sales, not how they stand up against Purples.
I never said they'd become irrelevant, I said their star had fallen considerably in the 80s/90s (from their 70s peak). Whether you totally disagree or not is irrelevant because it's true and mentioning them as an influence and praising them (ala Sex Pistols, Velvet Underground) has nothing to do with how successful they were in the 80s/90s. If their star was still burning bright, their sales wouldn't have been as low and poor as they were in the 80s/90s and even you agreed that nobody cared about their 80s/90s stuff.
Even Ozzy was hardly a huge and successful worldwide star in the 80s. He done reasonably well in the US but he was not exactly doing stunning business or charting that well in most other territories. Certainly in the UK (in the 80s) he was more renowned for his madman behaviour than his music.
I don't know what age you are but It just sounds like you're a fan, who has some misty eyed romanticism about them and him and thinks they were both so much bigger and more prevalent than they actually were back in the 80s/90s.
I'll give you that people do generally rate them as the first Metal band, even though they never seen themselves as as a Metal band, mainly because the term never really existed back then, they seen themselves as a heavy/hard rock band.
And if the Metal thing and being so influential is the reason why time has been so kind to them, why are Zeppelin so much more popular than them, considering they are just another hard rock band, like Purple.
"I never said they’d become irrelevant, I said their star had fallen considerably in the 80s/90s"
Please... You even said :
"In the 80s Sabbath kind of died a death, nobody really seemed to care about them much anymore"
That doesn't mean "irrelevant" to you ?
It's like when I said this discussion is about Sabbath's longevity vs. Purple's and you said "no it's about how time has been kinder to Sabbath than Purple"... What's the difference exactly ?
I still don't get why you're mentioning the post-Ozzy albums, why you're downplaying his success (he did "reasonably well" in the US, right 40 million albums while Purple sold 15 million) or why you don't see how young people would be more interested in the original metal band as opposed to just another hard rock band, but I'm honestly bored with this so let's just agree to totally disagree...
And no, I'm not even a Sabbath fan, I just think you're wrong.
For gods sake, you're just being ridiculous now.
In the 80s, certainly after Dio left, who'd injected a bit of life into them again, after the debacle of the later years with Ozzy, they died a death, nobody cared about them as an ongoing concern, they became a bit of a joke with different musicians on each album, even different musicians on the same album.
They were not irrelevant per se, as people did still value their early work to some extent but they were irrelevant as a current, ongoing entity, which clearly did have some effect on their overall popularity.
Why would you not mention their later stuff, it was still Black Sabbath, it's still part of their catalogue!
I'm not downplaying his success, I'm being honest about it. He quite clearly didn't sell 40m albums in the 80s, from 7 releases he sold around 10m-12m albums in the US in the 80s, which clearly isn't bad but it is a long way from being huge, as you said.
Thank god you're bored, if only you'd been bored from the beginning.
Hi Rodolfo!
Works on Deep Purple are now moving forward fast. I expect to finish their estimates at some point next week, then add in a pair of days to check back everything and write the article!
After that, I may move into some days of development to fix the few annoying glitches which keep happening, before completing the next big CSPC.
We may sneak in one or two CSPC light in-between these tasks as they really take little time and keep the website active.
I’m not sure if it’s more a US ratio that’s needed (because of the 48 percent)
or a Europe ratio (as Spotify is proportionally bigger in europe)
