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Aretha's top 2 songs combined have more streams than Barbra's entire discography 😆
Most streamed pre-2000 songs by female singers in the top 100 acts of all-time :
Mariah Carey - All I Want for Christmas Is You 1446m
Fleetwood Mac - Dreams 1244m
Whitney Houston - I Wanna Dance with Somebody 975m
ABBA - Dancing Queen 969m
Fleetwood Mac - Everywhere 677m
Britney Spears - Baby One More Time 635m
ABBA - Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! (A Man After Midnight) 582m
Whitney Houston - I Will Always Love You 578m
Fleetwood Mac - Landslide 552m
Aretha Franklin - I Say a Little Prayer 491m
Aretha Franklin - Respect 490m
Shania Twain - Man! I Feel Like A Woman! 458m
Céline Dion - My Heart Will Go On 456m
ABBA - Mamma Mia 416m
Shania Twain - You're Still The One 407m
Tina Turner - What's Love Got to Do with It 387m
Whitney Houston - I Have Nothing 355m
Madonna - Material Girl 344m
Céline Dion - Because You Loved Me 343m
Fleetwood Mac - Little Lies 330m
Barbra only has one song with 100m streams (Woman In Love, 144m), as for Janet, it is indeed similar to Madonna in the sense that Madonna was 3 times bigger than Janet and now she has 3 times more streams. Oh and Cher's Believe isn't included because her real EAS total is more like 60m (without Sonny & Cher).
Thank you! I been waiting for this analysis for a very long time. so MJD Quick question is I never loved a Man the Way I love you the highest selling female CSPC album ever up to 1967 or was there a female album higher than 13 million before 1967 ? And did Aretha put female albums on par with men? Or was it Diana/The Supremes? Thank you
Most streamed？Spotify is only a part of stream world.And as MJD pointed in “More features, less problems” article: “It was the fact that not all artists and genre perform equally well in distinct platforms, like Spotify and Apple Music for example, many divas's global hits are very popular in other platforms.
Such as My heart will go on, which's spotify figure seems not big as second best-selling physical by female,but in fact it's only one song from the ’90 inside top 10 most US streamed songs of the ’80s and’90s No. 1s, according to（Billboard）Nielsen Music（ https://jezebel.com/which-no-1-singles-from-the-80s-and-90s-stand-the-test-1844294232?rev=1595250877341）
And it had drawed at least 300 millions each year(the most among legacy female singers’s records) according to YouTube Chart.
I don't think female albums have ever really been on par with mens, until perhaps more recent times. Between 1963-1966 Streisand had 8 Top 10 albums in a row, in the US, but none of them seem to be thought of as being on par with albums that The Beatles, Dylan, The Stones etc were releasing at the time. While both The Supremes and Franklin had studio album success, it was quite fleeting, only lasting a year or two. Likewise, Ross on her own, had successful albums here and there but most underperformed.
Not thinking too deep about it, I'd say the first studio album by a female artist to seriously challenge the biggest albums of the time and come out on top, was Tapestry by Carole King. My shout though would be Linda Ronstadt, as being the first female artist to consistently have albums with the selling power of males.
In my opinion though, it wasn't really until Madonna and Whitney came around, that females started to consistently have albums sales, more in line with their male counterparts.
MJD never said "many divas' global hits are very popular on other platforms"...etc., and the list you mentioned combines audio and video streams which is especially absurd since we're talking about a pre-MTV artist (Aretha).
Annoying stans, the burden of chart geeks...
I'd say the mid-90s, with Céline, Mariah, Shania, Alanis...etc., before that it was still largely male dominated I think, despite a couple of megastars like Madonna and Whitney.
Yes, though Madonna was a bit damaged by the Warner boycott of Youtube which, I think, hurted her a bit. Both Madonna and Janet Jackson I think are also hurt by their respective USA backlash from which they never truly recovered. Though Madonna still has Europe behind her, so she still has moderate result (though much weaker then one would expect from her) while Janet was never really popular in Europe, except for "Toghether Again", hence the extremely disappointing result in streaming
First, MJD said it was the fact that not all artists and genre perform equally well in distinct platforms, like Spotify and Apple Music for example
And I talking about some diva's hater old tricks.
Such as mixing up albums ans singles, even physical and digital for "record sales", or charts, creating "no.1s" of nor Billboard 200 or Hot 100, or making it seems only one platform in stream world.
Spotify is also one of audio platforms.
Do you think that the struggle of women being taken seriously as album seller is related to the women emancipation? I'll explain myself: until the sexual revolution women participation in the workforce was low, so women had generally low salaries or no salary at all. Since the 70's however things changed and by now most women have a job and and an income. Since usually diva's music is targeted at a female audience, can this explain the long struggle of female artist? Until the mid '80's female artists were usually seen as single sellers cause women had lower income, so diva's target audience being poorer would have a better chance at buying a cheapre product (single) than a more expensive one (full album). However, when things started to change in the 80's with more women entering the workforce and having higher income, than music diva's started to sell more albums as their target audience had higher purchasing power.
Yes, totally, it obviously played a big part in the change.
I'd also say Western mindsets were (slowly) changing and sexist/misoginystic views starting to be questioned, challenged or derided. I think this gave women more of a confidence to express themselves, when previously they would have shied away, for fear of derision or ridicule. With greater freedom to express themselves, you had more females giving music a go, which in turn lead to more female artists and more role models for the next generation of girls to relate to or aspire to be like.
Yes, in America, Like a Virgin was the first female album to sell over 5 million.
Madonna does better in Latin American and Europe than America. Not incredibly better, but better. Agreed that the US backlash really hurt both of them to this day.
Also, since there's been a lot of talk about Tina Turner in the past week, I think she has to be recognised as a major source of change in the 80's-90's perception of women in pop music. She hasn't sold as much as the big 5 in terms of records, but she was a smash when it came to live performances in that era. She showed the world that a woman alone can fill the Maracana with more than 100 thousand persons and was often beating of bands and males artists in the yearly box office rating. So, while Tin Turner cannot be compares to the big 5 in terms of sales she definitely played a huge role in showing that women could be as big as male and bands
Yes I saw that Like A Virgin was the 1st to sell 5 million US copies. But I always wondered how if Tapestry sold 20 million copies. Like did Tapestry sales come later on?
Yes, Tapestry had sold more than 5m in the US, by the time of Like A Virgin. The RIAA didn't introduce Multi Platinum awards until 1984 though and her label never seemed to be that bothered updating her certs. Tapestry sat at Gold from June 71 until it was bizarrely updated to just 2x Platinum in 93, (Platinum certs came in, in 76), before updating it to Diamond in 95.
As for Madonna she also was never very strong in Japan and East Asia, especially if compared to Mariah, Whitney and Celine. She had success there too, but not at the same level of the other three big Divas of her era and those markets are now huge in streaming which is good for Mariah, Whitney, Celine and, more recenti, Taylor Swift and bad for Madonna
Right, I made this list because I'm a "diva's hater", very perceptive of you... And anyone with a functioning brain knew it was Spotify numbers btw.
Madonna had way more success than Whitney and Céline in Asia... You're right about Mariah though (20m albums vs. 30m).
Hi Tre!
I'll first answer this specific question about Aretha's 67 album and then answer the conversation as a whole about female artists.
So far, it's the biggest female album we have up to that date. Maybe surprisingly though, there are 3 real contenders to be ahead.
The first one is Brenda Lee's Merry Christmas from Brenda Lee which was the 1st LP to include her famous Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree. The track has outstanding results, but tbh I have never check Brenda's discography deep enough to have a realistic view of its total. I can't rule out that such a big track amassed many sales through various supports over the year.
Then in 1960 we have Etta James' At Last. This LP has the large majority of her career streams, and she sold a good amount of compilations over the years. Here too it's hard to put a definitive number without digging it, but 10m+ is likely.
The following year, Patsy Cline's Showcase was released. It has the strongest songs from her compilations, which include her Diamond Greatest Hits. Showcase should be past 10m too.
If we include the Supremes, it would be interesting to check totals of Supremes' A Go Go and Where Did Our Love Go? which include their biggest tracks.
All in all, while I have no precise idea of their sales and even if none is a clear favorite against Aretha's hit album, it's quite likely that at least one of these is ahead.
That's definitely the correct 'moment'. To be straightforward, females became great sellers with MTV. That's when the visual element became important that labels started to invest more on them, and Madonna quickly proved the recipe valid so they jumped into it even more.
Then, artists linked to an image have in general a shorter career, which makes it look like there weren't that many big female artists in the 80s. In reality, it's just that we remember the two biggest (Madonna and Whitney), but there were a lot of others.
It all gets clear when we check Billboard's yearly album charts.
In 1982, female albums in the top 50:
2 Go Go's Beauty & the Beat
8 Stevie Nicks Bella Donna
15 Olivia NJ Physical
22 Joan Jett & the Blackhearts I Love Rock n Roll
33 Juice Newton Juice
45 Diana Ross Why Do Fools Fall In Love
48 Pat Benatar Precious Time
It's worth noting that by this time standards, 1982 was an outstanding year for female artists. Yet, what's interesting here is that 3 of the main 4 are rock artists, which aren't in the "diva" family that is though of nowadays when talking about female singers. Then we have Olivia at 15 and the remaining ones at 33 and lower.
1983 is clearly the pivotal year, with Jane Fonda being the flagship of the change:
7 Jane Fonda Workout record
10 Olivia NJ Greatest Hits 2
16 Pat Benatar Get Nervous
The next female album is way down at 60 (Laura Branigan). A non-singer takes the lead, the iconic workout record by Jane Fonda, which perfectly illustrates the arrival of visual elements in the music industry. Then Olivia was still enjoying the post-Grease madness, and Pat Benatar was continuing to be the main female force of this period. We can note that suddenly, female artists doing "male music", rock-related, had suddenly gone.
In 1984, the new generation of female stars was already here.
11 Cyndi Lauper She's So Unusual
13 Linda Ronstadt What's New
14 The Pointer Sisters Break Out
17 Madonna Madonna
39 Tina Turner Private Dancer
49 Laura Branigan Self Control
50 Go Go's Talk Show
It continued in 1985 with albums bigger and bigger:
3 Madonna Like a Virgin
5 Tina Turner Private Dancer
16 The Pointer Sisters Break Out
24 Sade Diamond Life
25 Madonna Madonna
29 Whitney Houston Whitney Houston
43 Diana Ross Swept Away
47 Mary Jane Girls Only Four You
The continuous success of female artists and the example of Tina Turner led major to invest on former female stars too, so in 1986 we see strong performances by Barbra Streisand, Patti LaBelle, and Aretha Franklin's return.
6 Janet Jackson Control
8 Sade Promise
10 Miami Sound Machine (Gloria Estefan) Primitive Love
12 Barbra Streisand The Broadway Album
32 Patti LaBelle Winner in You
37 Madonna True Blue
41 Stevie Nicks Rock a Little
46 Aretha Franklin Who's Zoomin' Who
By 1987, they were already flooding charts:
5 Janet Jackson Control
9 Anita Baker Rapture
11 Madonna True Blue
22 Whitney Houston Whitney Houston
23 Whitney Houston Whitney
29 Expose Exposure
37 Tina Turner Break Every Rule
39 Cyndi Lauper True Colors
41 Jody Watley Jody Watley
48 Aretha Franklin Aretha
With artists like Expose or Jody Watley, we start seeing artists which are nor superstars in the making nor legends' revivals, just new pop stars that weren't going to last, which reflects well that it was easier to make it big as a female. It got even more obvious in 1988, with both Debbie Gibson and Tiffany in the top 10 and many names completely forgotten by now which made the top 50:
7 Debbie Gibson Out of the Blue
9 Tiffany Tiffany
12 Whitney Houston Whitney
13 Gloria Estefan Let It Loose
17 Belinda Carlisle Heaven On Earth
35 Jody Watley Jody Watley
36 Pebbles Pebbles
37 Sade Stronger Than Pride
39 Expose Exposure
41 Taylor Dayne Tell It To My Heart
50 Lita Ford Lita
If we caricature, in the history of music we used to have the "musicians" and the "voices", which the former being heavily male-dominated for various reasons and they also led in terms of importance vs the voices. Since mid-80s, we saw coming the "faces", and there female artists reign supreme. Obviously it's a caricature, there are voices who can play instruments, faces who sing perfectly well, or voices which are good looking, but this sums up pretty well the MTV switch which impacted the music industry from 83/84.
She did? I thought Celine destroyed Madonna in Asia. Especially considering her peak was the mid to late 90s when the Asian market was much bigger than it was in the 80s/early 90s.
